Israel/Palestine conflict

[arbitrage16]

Is the deliberate targeting of civilian and residential areas not a war crime, or are we all ignoring that at the moment ? I heard the Israeli defence minister say that they were concentrating on "damage, not accuracy" yesterday, unbelievable. And most western governments are cheerleeding this

Yep, it’s criminal.

The Israelis advised people in Gaza to evacuate...and then bombed the only route out.

[firlandsfarm]

Before the war, I didn't even know Gaza's dependent on Israel for electricity and gas. It really beggar's belief that they can attack the state that provides them with electricity and not see this coming.

At risk of being criticised for quoting you and at risk of you not accepting I am agreeing with you, I am. The attack was suicidal and that's why I think there is more to this than meets the eye. I understand Hezbollah have made attacks over the Lebanon border and Israel have attacked Damascus and Aleppo airports in Syria ... What's Sryia got to do with it FFS but does that mean Israel intelligence is anticipating a joint Arab assault? Could this all be a softening-up exercise motivated by Iran?

[firlandsfarm]

Before the war, I didn't even know Gaza's dependent on Israel for electricity and gas. It really beggar's belief that they can attack the state that provides them with electricity and not see this coming.

i think it goes quite a way beyond the current moment. remember, of the 1m+ population in Gaza, probably only a few 1000 are actively involved in or support hamas. it's basically collective punishment for having the misfortune to be contained within your own land and held hostage to politics.

I was just thinking, WTF's firlandfarm complaining about now when I realised it was you.

If it had been me and I was complaining I would probably have been complaining about you complaining about what I may have said!

(note the laughing!)

[firlandsfarm]

The world is going to war. Get your tin hats ready.

I'm afraid I think you could be right. Create a Russian backed front around Israel (who is seen by some as an external state of the USA ... the introduction of the US Navy offshore Gaza will fuel this notion), re-energise efforts in Ukraine and maybe China ups it's presence in the South China Sea and stirs things up with Japan, Philippines, Indonesia etc. and maybe Taiwan.

[firlandsfarm]

Is the deliberate targeting of civilian and residential areas not a war crime, or are we all ignoring that at the moment ? I heard the Israeli defence minister say that they were concentrating on "damage, not accuracy" yesterday, unbelievable. And most western governments are cheerleeding this

They are war crimes as is the blocking of essential supplies to maintain life but don't tell the media.

[firlandsfarm]

You fool. The Israelis are announcing in advance the attack zones and even sending letters to Gaza residents advising them to leave to avoid the danger. What the Western leaders are 'cheerleading' as you put it, is the rights of a sovereign nation to defend itself vigorously after such atrocities as Hamas / ISIS committed.

CS

Funny how Palestine have never had the right to defend themselves when attacked by Israel in the past.

[firlandsfarm]

You fool. The Israelis are announcing in advance the attack zones ...

According to the BBC "Israel is telling everyone in north Gaza - about 1.1 million people - to relocate to the south of the Strip in the next 24 hours, according to the United Nations". Have you ever tried to evacuate 1.1 million people in 24 hours using old vehicles along unsuitable roads? Now I can't confirm the BBC report is 100% accurate but if it is it is clearly an attempt by Israel to claim they abided by the law but in reality not.

[Archangel]

Is the deliberate targeting of civilian and residential areas not a war crime, or are we all ignoring that at the moment ? I heard the Israeli defence minister say that they were concentrating on "damage, not accuracy" yesterday, unbelievable. And most western governments are cheerleading this

You fool. The Israelis are announcing in advance the attack zones and even sending letters to Gaza residents advising them to leave to avoid the danger. What the Western leaders are 'cheerleading' as you put it, is the rights of a sovereign nation to defend itself vigorously after such atrocities as Hamas / ISIS committed.

CS

I think you are a delusional skier rather than a crazy skier if you believe what the Israelis are 'announcing' as you put it

[sIGNAL]

Ive had a live stream on in the background on youtube thats in Gaza city, and the city was just leaflet dropped. The leaflets are telling people to evacuate now and head south across the other side of the river. Also reports of tanks amassing on the border so looks like its all going to kick off big time this wkend.

Livestream link: https://www.youtube.com/live/5sCX7E0sRH ... B1mknRvYUl

[Derek27]

Is the deliberate targeting of civilian and residential areas not a war crime, or are we all ignoring that at the moment ? I heard the Israeli defence minister say that they were concentrating on "damage, not accuracy" yesterday, unbelievable. And most western governments are cheerleeding this

The Western allies destroyed civilian bridges in Bagdad, which had civilian casualties. When they received intelligence of Saddam eating in a restaurant, they bombed the restaurant (shortly after he left) killing about 20 civilians. The Israelis aren't doing anything we don't do, it's just that Gaza is a small area and civilian casualties are unavoidable.

In WWII, the US had little regard for the rules of war in the Pacific after seeing how ruthless the Japanese were and we responded to Hitler's bombing of British towns by dropping white phosphorus bombs on their cities. It was controversial even then, but unfortunately, when thousands of your own civilians are massacred in cold blood the rules of war go out the window.

You could find yourself in a position where your only options are to surrender to a ruthless invader or use ruthless and illegal tactics yourself.

[Derek27]

Who the hell is President Yahoo?

[Derek27]

Israel Defence Minister: "Israel never, and ever, will not shoot civilians in purpose"

I think we'll have to excuse his English.

[Archangel]

Israel Defence Minister: "Israel never, and ever, will not shoot civilians in purpose"

They will however bomb them and deprive them of food and medicine

[Derek27]

There's only one highway bridge crossing the river. A million people crossing in 24 hours is about 12 per second, hundreds given the time it takes to get there.

Sean Bell suggests the Israelis intend to use their bunker-busting bombs to destroy Hamas' network of tunnels.

[greenmark]

There's only one highway bridge crossing the river. A million people crossing in 24 hours is about 12 per second, hundreds given the time it takes to get there.

Sean Bell suggests the Israelis intend to use their bunker-busting bombs to destroy Hamas' network of tunnels.

My current view is this is more like the cornering of ISIL in Syria. Let Hamas take hold and feel safe then tell everyone else to run for their lives and then destroy Hamas and any part of Gaza Hamas occupy. I don't feel this is a special operation to zap key areas and knock Hamas back for a while. This is intended to be the obliteration of Hamas. I wouldn't shed a tear for the Hamas hierachy. They are in power due to being the best at violence. They couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery, never mind an enclave with such complex issues.

Hamas are only a faction of the Palestinian state (and not recognized as legit by most outsiders). They've taken over Gaza by force and are regarded as an incompetent quasi-government.