yup, in this whole affair, there's a broad stroke misunderstanding that the Palestinians are backing Hamas. They deplore them and are unfortunate hostages to fortune in this case. it's akin (tho obviously very different) to the situation in Belfast with the IRA in the 70-80's.greenmark wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:59 pmMy current view is this is more like the cornering of ISIL in Syria. Let Hamas take hold and feel safe then tell everyone else to run for their lives and then destroy Hamas and any part of Gaza Hamas occupy. I don't feel this is a special operation to zap key areas and knock Hamas back for a while. This is intended to be the obliteration of Hamas. I wouldn't shed a tear for the Hamas hierachy. They are in power due to being the best at violence. They couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery, never mind an enclave with such complex issues.Derek27 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 1:38 pmThere's only one highway bridge crossing the river. A million people crossing in 24 hours is about 12 per second, hundreds given the time it takes to get there.
Sean Bell suggests the Israelis intend to use their bunker-busting bombs to destroy Hamas' network of tunnels.
Hamas are only a faction of the Palestinian state (and not recognized as legit by most outsiders). They've taken over Gaza by force and are regarded as an incompetent quasi-government.
Israel/Palestine conflict
Well we could review the whole "troubles" in NI for several threads. A mess, as is Israel/Gaza/et al now. How they need a Mo Mowlam!jimibt wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 3:41 pmyup, in this whole affair, there's a broad stroke misunderstanding that the Palestinians are backing Hamas. They deplore them and are unfortunate hostages to fortune in this case. it's akin (tho obviously very different) to the situation in Belfast with the IRA in the 70-80's.greenmark wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:59 pmMy current view is this is more like the cornering of ISIL in Syria. Let Hamas take hold and feel safe then tell everyone else to run for their lives and then destroy Hamas and any part of Gaza Hamas occupy. I don't feel this is a special operation to zap key areas and knock Hamas back for a while. This is intended to be the obliteration of Hamas. I wouldn't shed a tear for the Hamas hierachy. They are in power due to being the best at violence. They couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery, never mind an enclave with such complex issues.Derek27 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 1:38 pmThere's only one highway bridge crossing the river. A million people crossing in 24 hours is about 12 per second, hundreds given the time it takes to get there.
Sean Bell suggests the Israelis intend to use their bunker-busting bombs to destroy Hamas' network of tunnels.
Hamas are only a faction of the Palestinian state (and not recognized as legit by most outsiders). They've taken over Gaza by force and are regarded as an incompetent quasi-government.
As horrendous as the massacre that happened a week ago was, ordering over a million people to leave their homes and head off through a war zone is complelely immoral.
And it wont work. Israel can kill as many Hama fighters as it wants, there will be a new generation and they will be tenfold in numbers after this
And it wont work. Israel can kill as many Hama fighters as it wants, there will be a new generation and they will be tenfold in numbers after this
It's super complicated, I've been trying to find Palestine on the map all week to better understand this conflict but still can't find it ffs
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Archery1969
- Posts: 4478
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:25 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank ... arison.svg
Easy to understand isn't it? I can't but I'm thick. All I know is thay sliver low on the left hand is where 2million reside in Gaza and Israel are asking 1.1million to evacuate from the northern 3rd to somewhere else (having closed northern exit rout and Egypt have cliosed the southern (Rafah) exit route.
As much as I despise what Hamas have done, Israel could wind up as the villain.
It's an awful situation fermented over 4 recent generations and many generations before. We are a bit thick aren't we? Is this the best the 21st century can come up with. KILL PEOPLE!!!!!!!
Easy to understand isn't it? I can't but I'm thick. All I know is thay sliver low on the left hand is where 2million reside in Gaza and Israel are asking 1.1million to evacuate from the northern 3rd to somewhere else (having closed northern exit rout and Egypt have cliosed the southern (Rafah) exit route.
As much as I despise what Hamas have done, Israel could wind up as the villain.
It's an awful situation fermented over 4 recent generations and many generations before. We are a bit thick aren't we? Is this the best the 21st century can come up with. KILL PEOPLE!!!!!!!
The problem with Wiki is that every paragraph has a "main article". If you read the main article, again, every paragraph has a main article, so it's like reading a 500-page book.greenmark wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:29 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank ... arison.svg
Easy to understand isn't it? I can't but I'm thick. All I know is thay sliver low on the left hand is where 2million reside in Gaza and Israel are asking 1.1million to evacuate from the northern 3rd to somewhere else (having closed northern exit rout and Egypt have cliosed the southern (Rafah) exit route.
As much as I despise what Hamas have done, Israel could wind up as the villain.
It's an awful situation fermented over 4 recent generations and many generations before. We are a bit thick aren't we? Is this the best the 21st century can come up with. KILL PEOPLE!!!!!!!
Don't even think about reading up the big bang!
This image shows how it has changed over the years, Palestinians live in Gaza and the West Bank, Gaza is controlled by Hamas, whereas the west bank is controlled by Fatah.
Good graphic that shows a bit how Palestinian territory has been eroded. But it doesn't address the core issue. Who own's Israel and Jerusalem?SpikeyBob wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:48 pmThis image shows how it has changed over the years, Palestinians live in Gaza and the West Bank, Gaza is controlled by Hamas, whereas the west bank is controlled by Fatah.
I would suggest both Palestinians and Israeli's have a very strong claim to Israel and Gaza and the West Bank.
I'm naive but both parties seem to have exceptional resilience and ability to innovate. Logic would suggest - get together and develop your land. Rather than spending loads on barriers, weapons to kill and then loads on rebuilding what those weapons have destroyed.
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Archery1969
- Posts: 4478
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:25 am
You need to go back to 1922.
The British and French were responsible for Palestine eventually being dismantled and separated into what you now see on most maps.
Believe it or not but I do fully understand Israel’s anger over what happened last weekend to its citizens, basically the land is not theirs to partition how they wish.
Not on the same scale by any means but while serving in Northern Ireland I grew to hate the Irish after losing mates and seeing what some Irish did on the UK mainland. May sound weird but blowing up people is one thing but blowing up horses turned mine and others in my unit stomachs. Did we take revenge, yes but that’s a story for another day, probably in a court of law.
Israel, indeed has the right to defend itself but what they are planning is not defending, it’s attacking and seeking revenge. In a UK court of law, if your neighbour came around and killed your children, you would be equally guilty of murder or manslaughter if you then killed him. Defending your family would play a big part and you may well get a minimal sentence, depending on if you tried to stop him before/after the fact.
My point, in a civilised society, we are supposed to hold the morale high ground and be better than the ones that wish us harm. Otherwise we are or become no better.
Let’s hope someone is big enough to make ALL see sense. But I fear that won’t happen.
The British and French were responsible for Palestine eventually being dismantled and separated into what you now see on most maps.
Believe it or not but I do fully understand Israel’s anger over what happened last weekend to its citizens, basically the land is not theirs to partition how they wish.
Not on the same scale by any means but while serving in Northern Ireland I grew to hate the Irish after losing mates and seeing what some Irish did on the UK mainland. May sound weird but blowing up people is one thing but blowing up horses turned mine and others in my unit stomachs. Did we take revenge, yes but that’s a story for another day, probably in a court of law.
Israel, indeed has the right to defend itself but what they are planning is not defending, it’s attacking and seeking revenge. In a UK court of law, if your neighbour came around and killed your children, you would be equally guilty of murder or manslaughter if you then killed him. Defending your family would play a big part and you may well get a minimal sentence, depending on if you tried to stop him before/after the fact.
My point, in a civilised society, we are supposed to hold the morale high ground and be better than the ones that wish us harm. Otherwise we are or become no better.
Let’s hope someone is big enough to make ALL see sense. But I fear that won’t happen.
The guy ended this video with the words, whatever comes next will be much worse!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRYZjOuUnlU
This woman says it's really complicated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDj0ghd7xMs
This guy says it's really simple. Palestine was given away like a box of chocolates!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE8GCX1w3ys
And here's a cartoon for greenmark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m19F4IHTVGc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRYZjOuUnlU
This woman says it's really complicated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDj0ghd7xMs
This guy says it's really simple. Palestine was given away like a box of chocolates!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE8GCX1w3ys
And here's a cartoon for greenmark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m19F4IHTVGc
Might as well throw in another map in the mix, why not go all the way back then
When your God gives you first dibs on this land it sounds like a fairly decent argument to at least keep a fairly small chunk of it
And whatever extra bits of land Israel gained was won fair and square against all odds when all the Arab countries around them conspired to destroy them
When your God gives you first dibs on this land it sounds like a fairly decent argument to at least keep a fairly small chunk of it
And whatever extra bits of land Israel gained was won fair and square against all odds when all the Arab countries around them conspired to destroy them