Rule 3 to trigger only if Rule 2 doesn’t!

[Safeway]

Hi All,

This simple automation is going quite well on the right races.

I am laying runners (Rule 1)

Greening up when/if the green up figure hits a certain value (Rule 2)

I’d like that to be all I need BUT I should have a Rule 3 which is a green/red up which only triggers near the end of the race and ONLY IF the 2nd Rule does not trigger ie the prescribed required green up figure has not been achieved and at this stage won’t.

I know I can have a Rule which is contingent on Rule 1 triggering but how do I best arrange a green up which only triggers if Rule 1 has triggered (as it will have) and Rule 2 has not?

I am considering having this Rule 3 timed to trigger in the last seconds of the race. I can hack the timing but don’t want this ‘final ditch’ green/red up triggering if the profitable green up has happened as it may destroy my profitable position. If the profitable green up (Rule 2) has not triggered then I want this Rule to green or more likely red me up gracefully.

Hope all this makes sense.

Thanks all for any help in this and in my previous questions where without your help I would have stayed manual

[Dallas]

If rule 2 has triggered and greened up (either for a profit or loss)

rule 3 can still trigger but it just won't place any bets as the stake required would be £0

So answer is you don't need to do anything - except make sure that rule 2 is no longer armed before rule 3 is armed

[jamesedwards]

Hi All,

This simple automation is going quite well on the right races.

I am laying runners (Rule 1)

Greening up when/if the green up figure hits a certain value (Rule 2)

I’d like that to be all I need BUT I should have a Rule 3 which is a green/red up which only triggers near the end of the race and ONLY IF the 2nd Rule does not trigger ie the prescribed required green up figure has not been achieved and at this stage won’t.

I know I can have a Rule which is contingent on Rule 1 triggering but how do I best arrange a green up which only triggers if Rule 1 has triggered (as it will have) and Rule 2 has not?

I am considering having this Rule 3 timed to trigger in the last seconds of the race. I can hack the timing but don’t want this ‘final ditch’ green/red up triggering if the profitable green up has happened as it may destroy my profitable position. If the profitable green up (Rule 2) has not triggered then I want this Rule to green or more likely red me up gracefully.

Hope all this makes sense.

Thanks all for any help in this and in my previous questions where without your help I would have stayed manual

Just a word of warning, greening up during a horse race is fraught with risk because of the 1 second delay and price volatility. The closer to the end of the race you get to the more extreme the volatility. At best you risk throwing away a large chunk of value, at worst you end up with a big fat red book.

Tread very carefully, and test/very low stakes first.

[Safeway]

Thanks Guys that’s been going round my head all day.

Just a quickie while we are at it. When we green up in racing, we rarely get an even green up. Different green amounts on different runners or (horrors) a red runner when all the rest are green.

In the scenario here, let’s say I am greening using rule 2 if the green up value is £5. If say one of the runners then shows green £3 and another shows red -£1 would one or both of these not trigger my rule 3 ‘final ditch’ green up if I dictated (say) green at ‘over £4’ or ‘green/red up if below £0?’

Clumsily put I know but I see situations where 8 runners may imply the triggering of something but 1 or 2 suggest not (or vice versa)

Even more clumsily put! Thanks again

[Dallas]

Thanks Guys that’s been going round my head all day.

Just a quickie while we are at it. When we green up in racing, we rarely get an even green up. Different green amounts on different runners or (horrors) a red runner when all the rest are green.

In the scenario here, let’s say I am greening using rule 2 if the green up value is £5. If say one of the runners then shows green £3 and another shows red -£1 would one or both of these not trigger my rule 3 ‘final ditch’ green up if I dictated (say) green at ‘over £4’ or ‘green/red up if below £0?’

Clumsily put I know but I see situations where 8 runners may imply the triggering of something but 1 or 2 suggest not (or vice versa)

Even more clumsily put! Thanks again

I depends if you are using the green all selections rule and green all profit condition
Or a close trade on selection with greening rule and close trade profit with greening condition (which you'd normally use if just trading a single runner)

If using the first it looks at your combined P/L (shown next to the scales on the ladder screen), which will continue changing in your example as prices continue to move and will trigger if that combined figure meets your conditions

If using the second it will look at the total for an individual runner, so in your example would only trigger if the runner it's applied to had the red -£1

[Safeway]

Thanks Dallas - priceless information

I absolutely never go on the ladder screen. At least not since I failed miserably to predict pre-race price movements. I think I'll be having a look later tonight!

I like 'pooling' runners. I'm thinking its a bit like holding shares in an OEIC rather than holding an individual company share directly. Looking back through my results I have profited even though the price of a runner has gone the wrong way as long as the others have gone the right way.

I needed to get that 'final ditch' green/red up thing in my head and I am very grateful for your help there. Strike rate in terms of do I make or lose on a race is about 90%. That's great but rubbish unless I control the position when the criteria is not met to green up profitably and I end up in 'last ditch territory.' I guess I may still not use a last ditch but I've the info now to come to a decision before loading the races and going out for the day (eeek )

[Dallas]

Thanks Dallas - priceless information

I absolutely never go on the ladder screen. At least not since I failed miserably to predict pre-race price movements. I think I'll be having a look later tonight!

I like 'pooling' runners. I'm thinking its a bit like holding shares in an OEIC rather than holding an individual company share directly. Looking back through my results I have profited even though the price of a runner has gone the wrong way as long as the others have gone the right way.

I needed to get that 'final ditch' green/red up thing in my head and I am very grateful for your help there. Strike rate in terms of do I make or lose on a race is about 90%. That's great but rubbish unless I control the position when the criteria is not met to green up profitably and I end up in 'last ditch territory.' I guess I may still not use a last ditch but I've the info now to come to a decision before loading the races and going out for the day (eeek )

OK so rule 2 should be a 'Green all selections' rule with 2 x Green all profit conditions - one greater than £4 the other less than -£1 (or whatever values you want to use.
These need to be nested in a Group which specifies 'At least one condition is true)

If you were going to use the same P/L values on rule 3 there isn't any point, just set rule 2 to trigger more times re-arming every few seconds

You'd only need rule 3 which should also be a 'Green all Selections' rule if you wanted a safety net (by as james said above that close to the end of the race it still not always be matched), but you'd use another 'Green all selections' rule with NO conditions

Then if Rule 2
A) Greens up evenly (profit or loss) Rule 3 will trigger but do nothing
B) Greens up unevenly Rule 3 will trigger and hopefully even the profit
C) Didn't green up at all Rule 3 would trigger and green up whatever P/L you had at that time

[Safeway]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Dallas.

I've done this manually for a few weeks which is why I am enthusiastic about it. You can see why I like longer races.......National Hunt which isn't happening in the evening now so I'm all on for automation and getting it right before going out.

I may have the odd question while I get this done so hope you're happy to answer any queries

Thanks again.

[ShaunWhite]

I needed to get that 'final ditch' green/red up thing in my head and I am very grateful for your help there.

Do bear in mind what James said. And it makes no difference whatsoever whether you're even across the card or if some are red and some are green. You'll be involved in thousands of races a year and the wins/losses will balance out exactly as they would if you'd greened at 0Ev.

[Safeway]

Shaun - thanks for your input....quote:-

You'll be involved in thousands of races a year and the wins/losses will balance out exactly as they would if you'd greened at 0Ev.

I mentioned the 'uneven' book' being unsure if the odd red or differing greens may affect the effectiveness of the bot in triggering another function, my 'last ditch green up idea' in this instance.

If I understand you, a second green up is unnecessary as in the long run it will all work out the same. Going one step further, is it folly to have a first green up? Is greening up for silly people only?

Here's the real question......should we just place bets, leave them and accept the result of the race / match whatever? Life could be unbearable unless we placed many, many bets. Is this your philosophy.....is this what you do?