Israel/Palestine conflict

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Kai
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What a tit, trying to prevent this mess from escalating further for everyone's sake including yours :)

No idea where they go from here though, with thousands dead on both sides, but levelling Gaza to rubble as a form of collective punishment will only create a new generation of terrorists and extremists, even if they kill off Hamas.

Not convinced by Netanyahu either, giving his people a bit of "revenge" seems like the only thing keeping him in his job currently.

The fact they need an Iron Dome and to wall everything off tells you it's far from a healthy society, and very far from a promised land utopia. Turtling up just doesn't work.
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jimibt
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Kai wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:47 pm
The fact they need an Iron Dome and to wall everything off tells you it's far from a healthy society, and very far from a promised land utopia. Turtling up just doesn't work.
maybe it's the (com)promised land then :D
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Kai
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jimibt wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:50 pm
Kai wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:47 pm
The fact they need an Iron Dome and to wall everything off tells you it's far from a healthy society, and very far from a promised land utopia. Turtling up just doesn't work.
maybe it's the (com)promised land then :D
Yes, seems to be a textbook dystopia instead :)

Who knows if it's possible to do better, it's quite literally a religious intersection of the world's 3 biggest religions, and a crossroads between West and East values.
greenmark
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Kai wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:58 pm
jimibt wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:50 pm
Kai wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:47 pm
The fact they need an Iron Dome and to wall everything off tells you it's far from a healthy society, and very far from a promised land utopia. Turtling up just doesn't work.
maybe it's the (com)promised land then :D
Yes, seems to be a textbook dystopia instead :)

Who knows if it's possible to do better, it's quite literally a religious intersection of the world's 3 biggest religions, and a crossroads between West and East values.
And what are Iraeli's supposed to do about the situation?
To decamp and become yet another diaspora because they're surrounded by (some) religious fanatics? Why should they?
They've made more out of the land than their most recent predecessors.
But yes, the jihadists have stirred the pot again But it's blindingly obvious to everybody but jihadists that jihad is a redundant concept.
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Kai
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greenmark wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:28 pm
And what are Iraeli's supposed to do about the situation?
Not get blinded by rage first and foremost like Biden advised from experience : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eE6o-5Z9mU

I don't have the solution, I haven't had the chance to ask ChadGPT yet :)

I'd say probably ditch the apartheid system since it's clearly not working, they can't control every Palestinian, let PLO become Palestine and have them sort out their extremism

But good luck negotiating peace with someone whose family you've bombed
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Derek27
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The Lord had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you."

Today, we normally regard people who hears the Lord's voice as suffering from schizophrenia or some other mental health problem, but it never stands up in court. :)
greenmark
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Kai wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:42 pm
greenmark wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:28 pm
And what are Iraeli's supposed to do about the situation?
Not get blinded by rage first and foremost like Biden advised from experience : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eE6o-5Z9mU

I don't have the solution, I haven't had the chance to ask ChadGPT yet :)

I'd say probably ditch the apartheid system since it's clearly not working, they can't control every Palestinian, let PLO become Palestine and have them sort out their extremism

But good luck negotiating peace with someone whose family you've bombed
...and negotiating with a nation that you have launched 1000's of missiles at and invaded and slaughtered in cold blood hundreds and have an avowed objective to destroy.
It's all so terribly wasteful and so blindingly obvious that the path of the last decades is ridiculous. But neither party will accept the logic of the negotiating table. It's dismal in the extreme.
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Derek27
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After butchering over a 1000 people and burning babies alive, Hamas think they've proved that really they're nice people because they've released two hostages. :roll:
Archery1969
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Israel has no right to take the morale high ground regardless of what happened to its citizens. Over the years they have killed far more Palestine's than the Israle's and others that died in one weekend. They are occuping land which is not there's, never has been. While that continues there will never ever be any peace. Israel only exists becuase of money and hardware supplied by the USA.

Most on here need a flipping history lesson as all seem to accept the narrative.

Nobody or country has the right to decide who has electricity, medical aid, food or drinking water and in the same breath kill children whatever the provocation. A democracy is built on laws and rules otherwise you become no better than the ones whishing to do you harm.

In contrast, back in the 1980's, the IRA commanders including allot of their foot soldiers could have easily been taken out across the border, hell, there was even a plan to do so, including their families and/or whoever was at the different premises at the time. Would some of been innocent, yes, but at the last hour someone decided the fall out would have been too great. As I understand it, the USA would have been pissed off for awhile but did not put forward major objections.

So, someone, went against her own advice from close council and personal thoughts. Was she right or did she rise above things and do the right thing. We shall never know.

As for the Israel/Palestine conflict, give them back their land.
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Derek27
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When Israel freed 1000 Palestinian prisoners in return for one Israeli hostage, they were freeing the planners and perpetrators of the 7/10 attacks!
Archery1969
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Derek27 wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:15 pm
When Israel freed 1000 Palestinian prisoners in return for one Israeli hostage, they were freeing the planners and perpetrators of the 7/10 attacks!
I think you will find the planners were Iranian. Hamas didn’t have the know how on planning such atrocities by themselves.
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Big Bad Barney
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Archery1969 wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:41 pm
As for the Israel/Palestine conflict, give them back their land.
I'm by no means all that knowledgeable about it, but this was fairly enlightening to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4upvoxP9-kg

The difficulty is that it's complex. If it was simple it would have been solved already.

There are a lot of practical problems with giving the Palestinians back their land. At a certain point, arguing morality with people who weren't there at the time doesn't help. It's also a case of lots of little transgressions over time adding up to a big one. (as well as other people having their fingers in the pie to mess with things that aren't there any more)

Same problem on a micro level with husband and wife that slowly decide they hate each other cause one of em doesnt respect the others boundaries....what do ya do ya know?
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Kai
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Archery1969 wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:41 pm
Israel only exists becuase of money and hardware supplied by the USA.

Most on here need a flipping history lesson as all seem to accept the narrative.

As for the Israel/Palestine conflict, give them back their land.
History doesn't seem to agree with the widely accepted narrative that Jews stole their land, and neither does archaeology.

Israel appears to have existed long before USA did and had kingdoms of its own, but the Jews were eventually slaughtered and banished by the Roman Emperor Hadrian who renamed the land from Judea to "Palestine", and hundreds of years before that they were exiled by the Babylonians as well. Many different empires controlled the region at some point but it seems that the Jews have a valid historical claim to this land, even without the biblical parts.

I think in recent history the Palestinians that were banished from most of the region by Israel after WW2 were in large part recent immigrants as well that came to work for the British, but the narrative that they keep spinning is that they all always lived there, that it was always their land and their land alone for thousands of years. Obviously, none of this justifies the IDF bombing campaign.

Israel thought they were clever with their "divide and rule" solution and barely any of their people died for decades compared to high numbers of Palestinian casualties, until now when third parties got involved.

Like I said a few days ago, I didn't know anything about their history but I find it fascinating for a number of reasons, they were banished from basically every corner of the world at some point, including England.

Funny enough this old map from 9th century BCE is not that far off from today.

Image
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Kai
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Son of Hamas leader breaks silence : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMCC2ihCowg
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Archangel
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I can't believe the Israelis are trying to pull the old chemical weapons routine. That's so 2003
If they mention "weapons of mass destruction" it will be bingo!
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