When Greening on the ladder interface, currently you only have the option to fire in a stake that will green-up 100% of your position.
It would be very useful if there was a three decimal places percentage option placed at the top of the column that could be used to enter a percentage of the green-up that would enable entries to be made at different price points which once all matched would green up your position.
This should be easy to achieve as the green-up function is already able to instantly calculate the 100% green-up stake that would be entered at the different odds, so it would just need to multiply that amount by the percentage entered in the box at the top, the default being 100%.
As an example, if 25% were entered, you could click on 4 different odds which would enter four different stake amounts at each of those different odds, (and if 10% were entered, you could click on 10 different odds which would enter ten different stake amounts at each of those different odds).
In this way, if only two of the four green-ups were matched you would have greened up 50% of the maximum amount etc. at the lowest odds matched if a lay green-up or at the highest odds matched if a back green-up.
I personally would find this a very useful feature as it's always annoying when you fire in a green-up stake to see the odds matched shorter for lays or higher for backs as you are giving away potential P&L.
Please give this suggestion some thought. THANK YOU.
** if it would be easier to add, there could be fixed percentage options to choose from in the percentage box such as:
100%
50%
33.333% (1/3)
25%
20%
10%
Ladder Green Up 'Percentage' Box
Hi, Tuco.Tuco wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 4:15 pmWhen Greening on the ladder interface, currently you only have the option to fire in a stake that will green-up 100% of your position.
It would be very useful if there was a three decimal places percentage option placed at the top of the column that could be used to enter a percentage of the green-up that would enable entries to be made at different price points which once all matched would green up your position.
This should be easy to achieve as the green-up function is already able to instantly calculate the 100% green-up stake that would be entered at the different odds, so it would just need to multiply that amount by the percentage entered in the box at the top, the default being 100%.
As an example, if 25% were entered, you could click on 4 different odds which would enter four different stake amounts at each of those different odds, (and if 10% were entered, you could click on 10 different odds which would enter ten different stake amounts at each of those different odds).
In this way, if only two of the four green-ups were matched you would have greened up 50% of the maximum amount etc. at the lowest odds matched if a lay green-up or at the highest odds matched if a back green-up.
I personally would find this a very useful feature as it's always annoying when you fire in a green-up stake to see the odds matched shorter for lays or higher for backs as you are giving away potential P&L.
Please give this suggestion some thought. THANK YOU.
** if it would be easier to add, there could be fixed percentage options to choose from in the percentage box such as:
100%
50%
33.333% (1/3)
25%
20%
10%
What you need can be done via automation and fired by a shortcut key.
Dallas has previously published at least one 'spread exit' automation that I can recall - check out his auto files.
If you get stuck, shout, as I'll have one lying around somewhere that you could adapt.
Thanks for that Geordie - unless I'm mistaken I think the version that Dallas offered could only green-up AFTER the net stakes had been reduced to zero which is something a little bit different.
This suggestion, or a variation of it, would allow different percentages to be entered for each and every selection if required and include the green-up profit/loss for each click at that percentage.
As the green-up currently calculates a 100% green-up, it should be a simple task to add a percentage of the green-up to be displayed in the green-up column.
The beauty of this version is that you could set say 25% and click 2 ticks 4 ticks 5 ticks and 7 ticks below the reverse price to green your position if all matched...or just click 1 tick and three lots of 4 ticks below the reverse price or 2 ticks and 5 ticks below the reverse price (thus only closing half of the available green) making it far more versatile and flexible - automation would be set at a fixed number of ticks for a fixed percentage
Maybe Dallas could advise?
Thanks again Geordie
This suggestion, or a variation of it, would allow different percentages to be entered for each and every selection if required and include the green-up profit/loss for each click at that percentage.
As the green-up currently calculates a 100% green-up, it should be a simple task to add a percentage of the green-up to be displayed in the green-up column.
The beauty of this version is that you could set say 25% and click 2 ticks 4 ticks 5 ticks and 7 ticks below the reverse price to green your position if all matched...or just click 1 tick and three lots of 4 ticks below the reverse price or 2 ticks and 5 ticks below the reverse price (thus only closing half of the available green) making it far more versatile and flexible - automation would be set at a fixed number of ticks for a fixed percentage
Maybe Dallas could advise?
Thanks again Geordie
Just to add to the above, I have plenty of spread entry and spread exit automation options and variations.
However, the automation spread exit options don't green up until after the net stakes have all been matched whereas this manual suggestion would give far more versatility and profit management options simply by having a greening percentage box.
However, the automation spread exit options don't green up until after the net stakes have all been matched whereas this manual suggestion would give far more versatility and profit management options simply by having a greening percentage box.
I'm still hoping this suggestion gets some due consideration.
It always struck me when watching Peter's excellent original videos of manual trading that he closed his positions by placing closing stakes (backs or lays) into the market to ultimately get his stake down to zero...but then he hit the big green-up button (which I would like to disable) to green his position thus taking the available green-up money rather than asking for odds thus potentially giving away a bit of value.
By having a Ladder Green Up Percentage Box (which by default is currently 100% as there are no percentage options), it would allow people to spread their green-up stakes, which if all matched without further attention would green up the position on the selection at different odds.
Adding this feature really shouldn't be too difficult as the code for 100% green-up is already currently integrated.
Please give this or a variation on this suggestion some consideration BA - pretty please!
It always struck me when watching Peter's excellent original videos of manual trading that he closed his positions by placing closing stakes (backs or lays) into the market to ultimately get his stake down to zero...but then he hit the big green-up button (which I would like to disable) to green his position thus taking the available green-up money rather than asking for odds thus potentially giving away a bit of value.
By having a Ladder Green Up Percentage Box (which by default is currently 100% as there are no percentage options), it would allow people to spread their green-up stakes, which if all matched without further attention would green up the position on the selection at different odds.
Adding this feature really shouldn't be too difficult as the code for 100% green-up is already currently integrated.
Please give this or a variation on this suggestion some consideration BA - pretty please!
...another day when I would have used the percentage box to scale out of a selection position with greening numerous times.
In longer term markets where I literally place 1,000's of trades, backing and laying, laying and backing I build up a green on the entire field by having net stake lays on the field, and therefore a green on all.
Maybe people don't understand how useful this suggestion of being able to scale out of a position with greening by percentage actually is, and certainly would be for the way I play numerous long term high trade volume markets...this is all a world away from placing a couple of trades on a single horse in a single race and then greening up all within 5-10 minutes.
If anyone doesn't understand the potential usefulness of such a feature, do please ask.
On reflection, perhaps a better place for this scalable greening option is through the parameter rules for a 'Spread Exit' servant rather than via a percentage 'green-up' box. A 'Percentage of Greening Net Stake' parameter rules would suffice within the rules >> parameter >> stake options. This should also be relatively easy to add to the existing code and if a 'Percentage of Greening Net Stake' parameter rules option could be added, it would mean the current screen layout would not need to be altered to add a 'percentage box'.
In longer term markets where I literally place 1,000's of trades, backing and laying, laying and backing I build up a green on the entire field by having net stake lays on the field, and therefore a green on all.
Maybe people don't understand how useful this suggestion of being able to scale out of a position with greening by percentage actually is, and certainly would be for the way I play numerous long term high trade volume markets...this is all a world away from placing a couple of trades on a single horse in a single race and then greening up all within 5-10 minutes.
If anyone doesn't understand the potential usefulness of such a feature, do please ask.
On reflection, perhaps a better place for this scalable greening option is through the parameter rules for a 'Spread Exit' servant rather than via a percentage 'green-up' box. A 'Percentage of Greening Net Stake' parameter rules would suffice within the rules >> parameter >> stake options. This should also be relatively easy to add to the existing code and if a 'Percentage of Greening Net Stake' parameter rules option could be added, it would mean the current screen layout would not need to be altered to add a 'percentage box'.
I'm still hoping that this 'ladder percentage box' option gets some consideration - there have been several people in other threads that have liked the suggestion.
The options should be 100% (1/1 which is what it currently offers), 50% (1/2), 33⅓% (1/3), 25% (1/4), 20% (1/5), 10% (1/10) and perhaps 5% (1/20).
As the column already offers the 100% option for both greening and without greening, implementing this additional option should be relatively straight forward in terms of coding.
It would also mean that the user could maximise their P&L exit (if all matched) and not have large lumps spook the market.
I did notice many years ago when Peter showed his excellent horse racing scalping that after he had closed his position for zero net stakes, he then and only then greened his position by taking the best available odds rather than asking for odds to be matched which with this addition would have increased his P&L.
What's not to like with this infrastructural improvement?
Please all get behind this suggestion - thank you
The options should be 100% (1/1 which is what it currently offers), 50% (1/2), 33⅓% (1/3), 25% (1/4), 20% (1/5), 10% (1/10) and perhaps 5% (1/20).
As the column already offers the 100% option for both greening and without greening, implementing this additional option should be relatively straight forward in terms of coding.
It would also mean that the user could maximise their P&L exit (if all matched) and not have large lumps spook the market.
I did notice many years ago when Peter showed his excellent horse racing scalping that after he had closed his position for zero net stakes, he then and only then greened his position by taking the best available odds rather than asking for odds to be matched which with this addition would have increased his P&L.
What's not to like with this infrastructural improvement?
Please all get behind this suggestion - thank you
+1 - think this is a great idea and would be lovely in automation. not quite sure about the implementation details but can imagine exiting on the price for the same ££ as the entry bet. thereafter, a final market green across the group affected.Tuco wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 10:23 pmI'm still hoping that this 'ladder percentage box' option gets some consideration - there have been several people in other threads that have liked the suggestion.
The options should be 100% (1/1 which is what it currently offers), 50% (1/2), 33⅓% (1/3), 25% (1/4), 20% (1/5), 10% (1/10) and perhaps 5% (1/20).
As the column already offers the 100% option for both greening and without greening, implementing this additional option should be relatively straight forward in terms of coding.
It would also mean that the user could maximise their P&L exit (if all matched) and not have large lumps spook the market.
I did notice many years ago when Peter showed his excellent horse racing scalping that after he had closed his position for zero net stakes, he then and only then greened his position by taking the best available odds rather than asking for odds to be matched which with this addition would have increased his P&L.
What's not to like with this infrastructural improvement?
Please all get behind this suggestion - thank you
[edit] - fwiw, you could of course do this in an automation using sv's etc. but having a single command to action this would be pretty decent!
I did experiment with this idea before when you mentioned it.
If I remember rightly, You cant just click away because the 2nd bet would change the stake of the first bet. Then a 3rd bet would change the stake of the previous bets. If that makes sense.
Example , if you look at the bookmaker tab, every time you add a selection the stake changes on all the other runners. It’s the same calculation.
What you need to do is select the prices beforehand.
Here’s the very rough file I created, sorry about the name, but it was about midnight when I read your post and I couldn’t help but try and see if it was possible.
It lays the green across the best 4 lay prices. Very untested
If I remember rightly, You cant just click away because the 2nd bet would change the stake of the first bet. Then a 3rd bet would change the stake of the previous bets. If that makes sense.
Example , if you look at the bookmaker tab, every time you add a selection the stake changes on all the other runners. It’s the same calculation.
What you need to do is select the prices beforehand.
Here’s the very rough file I created, sorry about the name, but it was about midnight when I read your post and I couldn’t help but try and see if it was possible.
It lays the green across the best 4 lay prices. Very untested
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Many thanks for your replies Dabbla - much appreciated. And you are quite right, I need to learn much more about both servants and automation. However, most of my ideas are what I would consider to be basic software infrastructure with servants and automation adding in their own way to that.
"If I remember rightly, You cant just click away because the 2nd bet would change the stake of the first bet. Then a 3rd bet would change the stake of the previous bets. If that makes sense."
The above is not right. My idea is that each green up bet is not affected by any subsequent ones irrespective of the odds they are placed at. Only when a bet is matched would it affect future green up closure bet stakes. Currently The Trading Column knows how much to stake to close/green a position at 100% and you can already do this more than once at different odds should you wish to do so, but that would then give you a red position on that selection (if the closure bets were lays) or a green position (if the closure bets were backs).
My idea with the percentage box is simply that the stake entered is a fixed percentage amount of the total closure/greening lay (for a previous back bet) X the percentage amount chosen at the time the green bet is placed. No-one knows in advance whether any of the closure bets will be matched but that doesn't matter. If you've entered 25% in the box, 4 different matched odds greening lays would have the selection level green. But you could choose to green just 2 different odds waiting for another market move before greening up some more.
As such the second bet would not change the stake of the first bet and so on - until any are matched each closure green bet would be entirely independent unto themselves. Once matched then of course if you were to start the process again, the stakes would be different if using the same 25% percentage option.
Simple Example:
...let's say to green up a previously backed selection 100% at 5.0 the stake would be £60.00 which it shows in the greening column. If you've selected the 25% box, the column would now show the stake to be £15.00 at 5.0, (if you had selected the 10% percentage the stake shown at 5.0 would be £6.00), and you could click £15.00 4 times at 5.0 and achieve the very same £60.00 greening lay. Or you could click twice at 5.0 to lay £30.00 and then for example click once at 4.0 which might fire in about £20.00 and once at 3.0 which might fire in about £25.00. If all 4 green lays were matched you've layed £75.00, whereas if you had layed all at 5.0 you would have layed just £60.00. Happy Days!
Bottom line is the percentage box would do exactly what the greening column does now just at the percentage you have chosen.
and of course the very same in reverse would also work for greening (backing) a previous lay bet.
This really should be very simple to achieve. The default on the percentage box would be 100% making it work how it does now. Then there would be drop down options below the default 100% of:
50%
33⅓%
25%
20%
10%
5%
...and/or if easier to implement, just 1 custom box for you to enter your own percentage to 3 decimal places, ie 33.333%.
And of course each market selection would have it's own independent percentage selection box simply at the top of each ladder.
"If I remember rightly, You cant just click away because the 2nd bet would change the stake of the first bet. Then a 3rd bet would change the stake of the previous bets. If that makes sense."
The above is not right. My idea is that each green up bet is not affected by any subsequent ones irrespective of the odds they are placed at. Only when a bet is matched would it affect future green up closure bet stakes. Currently The Trading Column knows how much to stake to close/green a position at 100% and you can already do this more than once at different odds should you wish to do so, but that would then give you a red position on that selection (if the closure bets were lays) or a green position (if the closure bets were backs).
My idea with the percentage box is simply that the stake entered is a fixed percentage amount of the total closure/greening lay (for a previous back bet) X the percentage amount chosen at the time the green bet is placed. No-one knows in advance whether any of the closure bets will be matched but that doesn't matter. If you've entered 25% in the box, 4 different matched odds greening lays would have the selection level green. But you could choose to green just 2 different odds waiting for another market move before greening up some more.
As such the second bet would not change the stake of the first bet and so on - until any are matched each closure green bet would be entirely independent unto themselves. Once matched then of course if you were to start the process again, the stakes would be different if using the same 25% percentage option.
Simple Example:
...let's say to green up a previously backed selection 100% at 5.0 the stake would be £60.00 which it shows in the greening column. If you've selected the 25% box, the column would now show the stake to be £15.00 at 5.0, (if you had selected the 10% percentage the stake shown at 5.0 would be £6.00), and you could click £15.00 4 times at 5.0 and achieve the very same £60.00 greening lay. Or you could click twice at 5.0 to lay £30.00 and then for example click once at 4.0 which might fire in about £20.00 and once at 3.0 which might fire in about £25.00. If all 4 green lays were matched you've layed £75.00, whereas if you had layed all at 5.0 you would have layed just £60.00. Happy Days!
Bottom line is the percentage box would do exactly what the greening column does now just at the percentage you have chosen.
and of course the very same in reverse would also work for greening (backing) a previous lay bet.
This really should be very simple to achieve. The default on the percentage box would be 100% making it work how it does now. Then there would be drop down options below the default 100% of:
50%
33⅓%
25%
20%
10%
5%
...and/or if easier to implement, just 1 custom box for you to enter your own percentage to 3 decimal places, ie 33.333%.
And of course each market selection would have it's own independent percentage selection box simply at the top of each ladder.
...another situation right now where I would absolutely use the green-up percentage box.
I think the problem is that the powers that be are not familiar with the circumstances which I often find - long term, gappy markets where I have hundreds and sometimes thousands of matched bets. A non-gappy, one day horse race that is over after a few minutes of in-play, is quite different, as are many markets.
If you have a net lay on a selection, but still a positive P&L which you are wanting to reduce, this Ladder Green Up 'Percentage' Box is the perfect solution if you wish to 'spread your exit with greening' - spreading your exit is one thing that a servant can easily do, but spreading your exit with ongoing greening (not afterwards) is quite another.
Of course there is another way using a calculator - at the desired odds enter the 100% green-up figure as shown in the Trading Column and multiply by the desired percentage, then do the same again for additional exit odds - enter the 100% green-up figure as shown in the Trading Column and multiply by the desired percentage...and so on
BetAngel has a huge amount of fantastically user friendly features - Use optimised green up calculation for markets with 2 selections. (One bet to green up both selections) being a perfect example - helping the user make good trading decisions.
These suggestions are simply additions to those user friendly features to continually evolve this superb piece of trading software.
I think the problem is that the powers that be are not familiar with the circumstances which I often find - long term, gappy markets where I have hundreds and sometimes thousands of matched bets. A non-gappy, one day horse race that is over after a few minutes of in-play, is quite different, as are many markets.
If you have a net lay on a selection, but still a positive P&L which you are wanting to reduce, this Ladder Green Up 'Percentage' Box is the perfect solution if you wish to 'spread your exit with greening' - spreading your exit is one thing that a servant can easily do, but spreading your exit with ongoing greening (not afterwards) is quite another.
Of course there is another way using a calculator - at the desired odds enter the 100% green-up figure as shown in the Trading Column and multiply by the desired percentage, then do the same again for additional exit odds - enter the 100% green-up figure as shown in the Trading Column and multiply by the desired percentage...and so on
BetAngel has a huge amount of fantastically user friendly features - Use optimised green up calculation for markets with 2 selections. (One bet to green up both selections) being a perfect example - helping the user make good trading decisions.
These suggestions are simply additions to those user friendly features to continually evolve this superb piece of trading software.