Israel/Palestine conflict

[firlandsfarm]

Israel needs to be careful ... their cries of "foul" because 1,400 of their civilians were killed gets weaker and weaker when they kill 9,000+ civilians! Yes, of course they have the right to defend themselves but do they need to defend themselves from Palestinian civilians?

In a similar way could Hamas claim they have the right to defend themselves from Israeli oppression?

We will see. But it seems Israel is intent on dismantling the Hamas infrastructure and haven't they also said Gaza will remain under Israeli control from here on?
This is invasion and occupation. And simply because Hamas lost their minds and made an existential error.
Whatever the truth of the motives, you're right I think that international appetite for what Israel is doing is weakening. It seems Israel's cornerstone support is the US. If that goes I wonder if Israel will look for a ceasefire.

Support in the US for Israel or what it is doing will not go. There are very rich and powerful Jews across America and in Washington who lobby and influence what the US president of the day does regarding Israel. Since 1948 the USA has given Israel $150 Billion in financial and military aid.

I agree. In the eyes of the western world even if they think Israel is doing wrong they would never say it.

[Derek27]

4-hour daily pause announced for humanitarian aid.

[Derek27]

I found a useful site that displays country size comparison. I always thought Israel was substantially bigger than the UK!

Screenshot 2023-11-09 210635.png

https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country ... ed-kingdom

[Big Bad Barney]

Was talking about this the other day at my work...I didn't have Derek's link at the time to win the debate

Problem solved....Stick em in a different desert....

2023-11-10 08_11_06-Size of Australia compared to Israel - Opera.png

[greenmark]

We will see. But it seems Israel is intent on dismantling the Hamas infrastructure and haven't they also said Gaza will remain under Israeli control from here on?
This is invasion and occupation. And simply because Hamas lost their minds and made an existential error.
Whatever the truth of the motives, you're right I think that international appetite for what Israel is doing is weakening. It seems Israel's cornerstone support is the US. If that goes I wonder if Israel will look for a ceasefire.

Support in the US for Israel or what it is doing will not go. There are very rich and powerful Jews across America and in Washington who lobby and influence what the US president of the day does regarding Israel. Since 1948 the USA has given Israel $150 Billion in financial and military aid.

I agree. In the eyes of the western world even if they think Israel is doing wrong they would never say it.

I disagree. There will be a tipping point where the World's appetite for Hamas to be neutralized will be overwhelmed by the humanitarian crisis Israel's actions are creating. Where that tipping point is from here I'm not sure. Without Iran and/or Hezbollah wading in Hamas are toast within weeks. This isn't Russia vs Ukraine. Hamas have made a terrible mistake. I have no respect for Hamas whatsoever, but they are a violently powerful minority and it's innocent Palestinians that will pay the price.

[firlandsfarm]

I disagree. There will be a tipping point where the World's appetite for Hamas to be neutralized will be overwhelmed by the humanitarian crisis Israel's actions are creating. Where that tipping point is from here I'm not sure. Without Iran and/or Hezbollah wading in Hamas are toast within weeks. This isn't Russia vs Ukraine. Hamas have made a terrible mistake. I have no respect for Hamas whatsoever, but they are a violently powerful minority and it's innocent Palestinians that will pay the price.

You may be right greenmark but like you I have no idea when that may happen. It seems to me the world 'allows' Israel to get away with many things they would protest if another country did them. I guess it's because of 'holocaust sympathy'.

But I doubt Hamas will ever be toast unless they become obsolete because of some agreed settlement. From what I understand the leaders are not in Gaza and how do the Israelis filter out the 1,000 or so Hamas supporters from the 2,000,000 or so ordinary Gazans. This will only be solved with a 2 state resolution such that the Gazans tell Hamas to not screw-up the deal.

[Kai]

There will be a tipping point where the World's appetite for Hamas to be neutralized will be overwhelmed by the humanitarian crisis Israel's actions are creating.

Hard to achieve much of anything when electing world leaders like these : https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NWf8DUFWFRs

The gloves most certainly come off when your very existence is threatened, but no need to pick sides, people can condemn the actions of both if they so wish

[greenmark]

There will be a tipping point where the World's appetite for Hamas to be neutralized will be overwhelmed by the humanitarian crisis Israel's actions are creating.

Hard to achieve much of anything when electing world leaders like these : https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NWf8DUFWFRs

The gloves most certainly come off when your very existence is threatened, but no need to pick sides, people can condemn the actions of both if they so wish

I've been trying to put what Hamas did in context.
2 million in Gaza, 3 million in the West Bank (who may or may not be supportive of Hamas).
10 million in Israel 25% of whom are Arab or not jewish.

Imagine if Scotland went nuts and killed 5000 in England in one swoop.
What does anyone think the response of the UK government would be?

I think it would be very similar to Israel's response to 7th October.

[firlandsfarm]

I found a useful site that displays country size comparison. I always thought Israel was substantially bigger than the UK!


Screenshot 2023-11-09 210635.png

https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/country ... ed-kingdom

My ex (who had family in Israel) explained it to me as Jerusalem to Tel Aviv is closer than London to Brighton!

[Derek27]

I thought the big day was tomorrow. Tommy Robinson's reared his ugly head.

[greenmark]

I disagree. There will be a tipping point where the World's appetite for Hamas to be neutralized will be overwhelmed by the humanitarian crisis Israel's actions are creating. Where that tipping point is from here I'm not sure. Without Iran and/or Hezbollah wading in Hamas are toast within weeks. This isn't Russia vs Ukraine. Hamas have made a terrible mistake. I have no respect for Hamas whatsoever, but they are a violently powerful minority and it's innocent Palestinians that will pay the price.

You may be right greenmark but like you I have no idea when that may happen. It seems to me the world 'allows' Israel to get away with many things they would protest if another country did them. I guess it's because of 'holocaust sympathy'.

But I doubt Hamas will ever be toast unless they become obsolete because of some agreed settlement. From what I understand the leaders are not in Gaza and how do the Israelis filter out the 1,000 or so Hamas supporters from the 2,000,000 or so ordinary Gazans. This will only be solved with a 2 state resolution such that the Gazans tell Hamas to not screw-up the deal.

I think Hamas are toast regardless of their leaders living the high life in Qatar while their infantry are wiped out.
Politically they have made a terrible error.
But Hamas isn't a political entity. They are an extremist organisation that needs to be dismantled.

But I will say yet again - if Palestiinians and Israeli's could find a way to work together they would bw formidable.
What we have now is pointless waste of lives. Life is short. This conflict is just total nonsense. 21st century, still kiling for advantage.

[Archery1969]

Israel has made allot more enemies in the middle east. Only a matter of time before another mass slaying of the Jewish population at home and abroad.

It's rather ironic that a NATO member openly provides protection to a number of high ranking hamas leaders.

[greenmark]

Oh no. The Anti-israel, pro-palestine protests didn't result in a bloodbath!!!!!!

What shall we do?

How about shut the **** up and get on with trying to make things better, rather than stir up trouble.
The media are so disingenuous.

[Derek27]

Michael Clarke says the IDF have made a complete cock-up of what should be basic planning of what to do with the civilians surrounding the hospitals. No humanitarian supply depots have been set up behind their front line and little means of providing food and medical supplies.

[Derek27]

I thought for a moment, I heard the IDF will get drawn into Gasa to find their sausages.