The "frustrated at race scheduling" thread

[andyfuller]

Perhaps because the racing authorities are considering the needs of their own racing public, not of an exchange from which they derive no benefit?

Just a thought.

If only they were? What benefit is to be had by the above scheduling for any Countries racing public?

People in Ireland want to watch and bet on Irish, UK and French racing, people in the UK want watch and bet on UK, Irish and French racing and likewise for France. Not all people but many do.

It has nothing specifically to do with Betfair but the general betting Levy which covers all betting mediums (Betfair is part of it in the UK) which in turn represents a significant part of the funding of the sport in all of those Countries.

If each countries racing public wasn't interested in the other and their Industries weren't so closely tied then clashes would be no issue.

It is frustrating for people who trade and bet but who it should frustrate the most are the owners, jockies and trainers as it is they who ultimately pay the price of a lower Levy

[payuppal]

The levy Betfair pays goes to UK racing only.

Ireland and France are completely separate from the UK, in their racing administrations and their objectives.

They schedule their races to suit these objectives.

[andyfuller]

The levy Betfair pays goes to UK racing only.

Ireland and France are completely separate from the UK, in their racing administrations and their objectives.

They schedule their races to suit these objectives.

Yes correct regarding Betfair as I said in my reply to your previous post. Just as an Irish bookmaker pays no Levy to UK racing despite offering betting on it.

But for example I did not touch Goodwood just now Pre Race as I was still on the Listowel race that was running whilst Goodwood was on. As such there was no Levy from my personal activities there. Obviously that would be a tiny amount but repeat this across all betting mediums and many people who were still waiting on the Irish result before placing a bet on the Goodwood race and you can see how a lack of coordinated planning impacts each others countries. Now multiply this up numerous times over the year and I hope you can see the impact on the Levy in all countries.

To say they are completely separate is incorrect imo both in terms of the administrations and objectives from my studies of the racing industries world wide and working in the industry world wide in both the racing and breeding parts of industry.

Each to their own opinion, but on a very simplistic level I always thought all racing jurisdictions wanted to put on the best racing for the best prize money that they could and hold regular conferences world wide to try and achieve such aims and also to work together to achieve these aims.

[payuppal]

There is no Levy in France; it's a tote monopoly, the PMU.

So they have no interest in coordinating their race times with this country.

In fact, they would positively prefer not to if they thought it would benefit Betfair.

Ireland has a busy programme today; once again, they do not benefit from any betting business on their races but outside their country.

[payuppal]

It is in fact against their rules for people outside France to bet into the PMU pools, so they definitely have no incentive.

[payuppal]

And the only joint decisions are about the European Pattern races.

Nothing else.

[andyfuller]

There is no Levy in France; it's a tote monopoly, the PMU.

So they have no interest in coordinating their race times with this country.

In fact, they would positively prefer not to if they thought it would benefit Betfair.

Ireland has a busy programme today; once again, they do not benefit from any betting business on their races but outside their country.

I have covered previously on this thread all of the points you have just made so I won't repeat myself, just re-read them.

Ireland has a busy programme today

God forbid Ireland if they ever have more than 2 race meetings in a day, they may go into melt down

[payuppal]

I have covered previously on this thread all of the points you have just made so I won't repeat myself, just re-read them.

I've read them.

They are simply wrong.

There is no 'general Levy' anywhere, and no desire to coordinate separate national programmes.

You should have paid more attention on your travels...

[andyfuller]

It is in fact against their rules for people outside France to bet into the PMU pools, so they definitely have no incentive.

You have missed my point, see previous post.

And the only joint decisions are about the European Pattern races.

Nothing else.

Very much incorrect but you don't come across to me as the kind of person who wants dig a bit deeper into the running of the sport on a world wide basis but incase you do here is a small starting point, don't let the fact that they meet in France each year and discuss things other than the European Pattern put you off looking :

http://www.horseracingintfed.com/aboutD ... ?section=3

On that note and as the racing is coming to an end today I shall bow out of our discussion, it helped pass the 15 min gaps

[Iron]

Does anyone have any stats re. the average volume matched on an Irish race when there is a clash, compared to when there isn't?

Thanks

Jeff

[andyfuller]

Would be good if the Irish could put their meeting back 5 mins now to dovetail with the UK racing better now that Muss. is off. Can't see it happening though.

[Iron]

You never know... They might!

ROFLOL!

Jeff

Would be good if the Irish could put their meeting back 5 mins now to dovetail with the UK racing better now that Muss. is off.

[payuppal]

This may explain why HRI, the governing body for the sport in Ireland, which is a separate country from the UK you seem unaware of this, won't do Betfair any favours.

But you knew this already ho ho ho...


More details have emerged regarding the voluntary funding dispute between the international online betting exchange Betfair and Horse Racing Ireland.

It appears that Betfair’s offer of a further voluntary investment of Euro 4.5 million over the next three years has been rejected by HRI, which wants the gambling group to double its contribution. Betfair has declined to do so, indicating that it will leave the door open for further talks going into 2010.

Betfair’s offer of payment comes despite the Irish operation representing less than 5 percent of its total revenue.

Over the past three years, Betfair has made a total of Euro 4.9 million in contributions to the HRI in a “cooperation agreement” for the good of the sport, and the rejection by the HRI management at a time when it is suffering state funding cuts and has had to scale back on prizes has surprised some observers. One unidentified senior government figure is quoted by the Irish newspaper Independent as saying: “How in the hell can they turn down a single cent at a time when budgets all over the place are being squeezed. Someone needs to take a very quick reality check.”

However, Brian Kavanagh, CEO of the HRI remains adamant that he will accept only an amount double that offered from Betfair, and that should negotiations recommence in 2010 it will have to be on the basis that any deal done in 2010 would have to be done on a “pre-condition that it would be backdated to the start of 2009″.

[andyfuller]

This may explain why HRI, the governing body for the sport in Ireland, which is a separate country from the UK... won't do Betfair any favours.

My point has nothing to do with Betfair directly.

It would seem to me to make perfect sense for the Irish to put their racing back 5 minutes. Here is why:

Mr So It Is our friendly Irish bookmaker punter is sat in his local betting shop in Kildare. He is set fair for an afternoon of punting on the racing. He likes to punt on more than just the one Irish meeting so today with 2 UK meetings still on he decides to have a punt on the 16.10 at Kempton.

He backs the horse called Craic at 5-1 at Kempton.

The next race at Listowel is due off at 16.15 but Mr So It Is like a lot of punters lacks discipline and likes to 'reinvest' his winnings when he hits on a winner as he thinks his luck is in.

So the Kempton race gets under way and Craic comes in and wins at 5-1. However the betting shop only pays out when the result is annouced. The Kempton race was 3 mins late off and took 2 mins to run. The result is annouced a minute later.

Mr So It Is had picked out a horse to back at Listowel but the Listowel race is already off so he can't bet on it. So Mr So It Is instead puts some of his Kempton winnings on the next race which is at Brighton.

How much potential Levy does Irish racing get? How much potential Levy could they have got had they put Listowel back 5 mins and given Mr So It Is time to get his winnings back from the Kempton race and then bet on Listowel.

Hopefully that illustrates the point for you and you can see beyond Betfair

[payuppal]

Since the betting shop punter is always a loser, HRI prefer him to bet on Irish racing, from which they draw income, and not on UK racing, from which they get nothing.

HRI has no reason whatsoever to help UK racing.