Hi everyone, another newbie here.
I have a question/issue with regards to my trading.
Basically, i've spent my first day on BA after watching countless hours of videos and reading forums etc - and i'm down. Thing is, i'm not sure how.
I'll run through my settings and stakes briefly.
I'm using the oneclick screen as i prefer that. Keeping close eye on graphs of the top 2 or 3 runners, and trading with (initally) £2 stakes.
The oneclick settings are:
Offset bet and stop - Offset 1, Stop trigger 2, place at 5
Fill or kill 20 secs
Tick size £1
Is there something in these settings which isnt giving BA enough space to get some green? Or am i making the jump at the wrong time? (probably)
I've found that the only 2 greenbooks i've had today (with about 10p per runner) have come when a) the fav i've been trading on has been very shortly priced, and b) when i've been doing things manually.
Any friendly advice would be appreciated. I kicked off with a £15 'test the water' bank, which i've gone through very quickly lol!
Cheers!
Hi! A newbie seeing red!
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Hi Welcome to the Forum
The first thing I suggest is that you refocus your aim. With that setup you are looking to take 1 tick profit but willing to accept a 2 tick loss. You should be looking to exit with a scratch or just a 1 tick loss.
Do you have the book reversed? Go to force open and set it to Reverse. This way you will offer money to the market or ask for a price. If you do not have the book reversed then you are going to get run over by the market.
Scalping is tricky on most midweek markets as the lack of money means the markets can be volatile. Basically this means IF it goes your way you will only make 1 tick but if goes against you then you will lose 2 ticks minimum and if it is a real spike then maybe 5 ticks loss.
You should be looking to reverse that profit aim so you maybe take 2 ticks profit but only lose 1 tick. Obviously that requires practice and skill but your current method means the market is just going to rob you over time.
HTH
The first thing I suggest is that you refocus your aim. With that setup you are looking to take 1 tick profit but willing to accept a 2 tick loss. You should be looking to exit with a scratch or just a 1 tick loss.
Do you have the book reversed? Go to force open and set it to Reverse. This way you will offer money to the market or ask for a price. If you do not have the book reversed then you are going to get run over by the market.
Scalping is tricky on most midweek markets as the lack of money means the markets can be volatile. Basically this means IF it goes your way you will only make 1 tick but if goes against you then you will lose 2 ticks minimum and if it is a real spike then maybe 5 ticks loss.
You should be looking to reverse that profit aim so you maybe take 2 ticks profit but only lose 1 tick. Obviously that requires practice and skill but your current method means the market is just going to rob you over time.HTH
Hi,
Thanks for the reply,
My force open is set to none. I'll try on reversed to see how things go and report back!
So, things now look like this:
Offset bet and stop. offset 2, stop trigger 1, place at 3.
reverse book.
Is that more appropriate for what i'm trying to do on this screen?
Thanks again for the welcome and the kind support!
Ant
Thanks for the reply,
My force open is set to none. I'll try on reversed to see how things go and report back!
So, things now look like this:
Offset bet and stop. offset 2, stop trigger 1, place at 3.
reverse book.
Is that more appropriate for what i'm trying to do on this screen?
Thanks again for the welcome and the kind support!
Ant
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
No problem, we all have to make a start sometime.
Perhaps you could try removing the offset and just placing the orders yourself? The profit column will let you know if it is red or green so you can let that help to guide you. If it moves against you then close out the trade at this stage of your learning. If it starts to move in your favour then try and squeeze as much profit as you can.
Perhaps you could try removing the offset and just placing the orders yourself? The profit column will let you know if it is red or green so you can let that help to guide you. If it moves against you then close out the trade at this stage of your learning. If it starts to move in your favour then try and squeeze as much profit as you can.
Hi JG,
I've just confused myself a little by reversing the book.
The back column is now coloured pink leading me to think its lay :\
Just tried a couple of quick ins and outs and still come off red - got myself to £0 again, and let BA do the work by selecting 'make market' - just to see what happened, 40p down immediately.
Wondering how i could be so confused after so many hours on youtube lol!
Thanks again JG
I've just confused myself a little by reversing the book.
The back column is now coloured pink leading me to think its lay :\
Just tried a couple of quick ins and outs and still come off red - got myself to £0 again, and let BA do the work by selecting 'make market' - just to see what happened, 40p down immediately.
Wondering how i could be so confused after so many hours on youtube lol!
Thanks again JG
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Don't worry it is quite normal to be confused at first. All you have done is tricked the software into placing an order into the money queue and in your favour.
So let's assume the price is 6.2 to back and 6.4 to lay. When you reverse the book you click on the 6.2 and it will place a lay order for you. If you click on 6.4 then it will place a back order. You are then playing with the market in your favour. If you tried to lay at 6.4 or back at 6.2 then most of the time you will just create a loss because the market is efficient.
By doing it this way you are asking for a price or offering money to the market.
If you think about it, the money at 6.2 is placed by people wanting to lay at that price and at 6.4 by people wanting to back that price. Think of it like a market stall and you're buying something. You shouldn't take the price offered by the trader, haggle with him and get a better price.
Does that make sense?
If you want to relax and have a giggle then have a look at this The Haggle
P.S. Sorry about the Typo, in my haste to post a quick reply before I leave for the evening I typed 5.2 5.4 and then I had to edit it so more haste less speed runs true again!!
So let's assume the price is 6.2 to back and 6.4 to lay. When you reverse the book you click on the 6.2 and it will place a lay order for you. If you click on 6.4 then it will place a back order. You are then playing with the market in your favour. If you tried to lay at 6.4 or back at 6.2 then most of the time you will just create a loss because the market is efficient.
By doing it this way you are asking for a price or offering money to the market.
If you think about it, the money at 6.2 is placed by people wanting to lay at that price and at 6.4 by people wanting to back that price. Think of it like a market stall and you're buying something. You shouldn't take the price offered by the trader, haggle with him and get a better price.
Does that make sense?
If you want to relax and have a giggle then have a look at this The Haggle
P.S. Sorry about the Typo, in my haste to post a quick reply before I leave for the evening I typed 5.2 5.4 and then I had to edit it so more haste less speed runs true again!!
Is reversing the book not just a matter of preference rather than a necessity? I'd just assumed that the default settings in BA were the most standard to use, please don't tell me I've been wasting my time trading this way!
EDIT: Seems this is a reasonable explanation.
EDIT: Seems this is a reasonable explanation.
Bet Angel wrote:The essense to reversing a book is that you are asking for a price than taking it. If you ask for a price you put yourself in a much better position to scratch if you are doing a shorter term trade. If you are looking for a trend you probably don't want to ask for a price or you may miss it so in this situation you may be better not reversing the book.
thanks for hopping in Consty
So, it would seem from the snippet you posted that the standard appearance of the BA one click screen could be more suited to me, as i sit following the charts etc.
So, still confused as to why im losing. Possibly put it down to inexperience, and drop a few more deposits into it first before i get too grumpy about it.
I've noticed that when i join markets with about 20-30 mins remaining that have a fav siting around the 2-2.2 mark that these prices drift quite a lot once the market gets moving (is this a 'long term trade'?). Is this flukey, or is this a common occurrance?
Sorry for all the questions, basic as they may be! I guess that all the hours of vids and reading can't prepare for the real thing eh!?
Thanks again for your kind response!
So, it would seem from the snippet you posted that the standard appearance of the BA one click screen could be more suited to me, as i sit following the charts etc.
So, still confused as to why im losing. Possibly put it down to inexperience, and drop a few more deposits into it first before i get too grumpy about it.
I've noticed that when i join markets with about 20-30 mins remaining that have a fav siting around the 2-2.2 mark that these prices drift quite a lot once the market gets moving (is this a 'long term trade'?). Is this flukey, or is this a common occurrance?
Sorry for all the questions, basic as they may be! I guess that all the hours of vids and reading can't prepare for the real thing eh!?
Thanks again for your kind response!
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Hi again
Sorry about the late reply, I have been up to my eye in it over the last few days.
If you are starting a market about 20 minutes out then you are starting too early....UNLESS....you are using other factors to determine a price move. Think back to my comment about throwing stones into a pond. At 20 minutes out most of the stones are tiny which is fine for you provided you are trying to make small profits using small stakes. Now think about what I said about your profit expectations and relate it to trading 20 minutes out. If a player comes into the market with a large order and that stone causes the pond to overflow then you have absolutely no chance of recovering your position. So your risk v reward ratio is the wrong way round again. If you get it right you take a small profit, you can take a few small profitable trades but when that big stone hits the pond you will probably lose all of that profit and some. I hope that makes sense.
I use a very simple phrase when trying to help people start trading KISS....Keep It Simple Stupid.
My personal opinion is that you are probably trying too hard too early. It may be better to wait until about 5 minutes out and watch how the price is moving. Try and find points where the market does not go beyond or where certain moves repeat. Sit like a predator and when you see a chance, trust your judgement and go for it. Should it go wrong then close out and go back to being a predator again. The more you adopt this attitude the more you will see opportunities and the more you will be able to read the market. It can take a split second to nip in catch a nice move and close out for a profit. It is better than jumping in early and then spending all your time trying to extricate yourself from a bad position.
One final thing...sorry for the long winded reply.....if you can't spot an opportunity then it is probably because it isn't there. That means you should NOT trade. As you grow in experience you will see more opportunities so stay patient.
HTH
JG
Sorry about the late reply, I have been up to my eye in it over the last few days.
If you are starting a market about 20 minutes out then you are starting too early....UNLESS....you are using other factors to determine a price move. Think back to my comment about throwing stones into a pond. At 20 minutes out most of the stones are tiny which is fine for you provided you are trying to make small profits using small stakes. Now think about what I said about your profit expectations and relate it to trading 20 minutes out. If a player comes into the market with a large order and that stone causes the pond to overflow then you have absolutely no chance of recovering your position. So your risk v reward ratio is the wrong way round again. If you get it right you take a small profit, you can take a few small profitable trades but when that big stone hits the pond you will probably lose all of that profit and some. I hope that makes sense.
I use a very simple phrase when trying to help people start trading KISS....Keep It Simple Stupid.
My personal opinion is that you are probably trying too hard too early. It may be better to wait until about 5 minutes out and watch how the price is moving. Try and find points where the market does not go beyond or where certain moves repeat. Sit like a predator and when you see a chance, trust your judgement and go for it. Should it go wrong then close out and go back to being a predator again. The more you adopt this attitude the more you will see opportunities and the more you will be able to read the market. It can take a split second to nip in catch a nice move and close out for a profit. It is better than jumping in early and then spending all your time trying to extricate yourself from a bad position.
One final thing...sorry for the long winded reply.....if you can't spot an opportunity then it is probably because it isn't there. That means you should NOT trade. As you grow in experience you will see more opportunities so stay patient.
HTH
JG
With scalping, you have a limited upside (assuming you put orders on both sides of the book), but an unlimited downside.JollyGreen wrote: Scalping is tricky on most midweek markets as the lack of money means the markets can be volatile. Basically this means IF it goes your way you will only make 1 tick but if goes against you then you will lose 2 ticks minimum and if it is a real spike then maybe 5 ticks loss.
Let's say you've laid a horse at 2.0 and are waiting for your back order at 2.04 to be matched. If there's a 5 tick spike upwards, you'll make 2 ticks profit. If there's a 5 tick spike downwards, you'll lose 5 ticks.
So how can you be confident that, long term, you'll come out with a profit despite the inevitable spikes that go against you?
Jeff
I'm not saying that, and I know there are guys in the forum who earn very good money from scalping.
I'm just a bit wary of setting out with a profit target of x ticks, rather than letting what's happening in the market determine when I exit my trade. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the 'profit target' approach - I'm just not clear how you can be confident you'll come out with a profit over a large number of races.
Jeff
I'm just a bit wary of setting out with a profit target of x ticks, rather than letting what's happening in the market determine when I exit my trade. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the 'profit target' approach - I'm just not clear how you can be confident you'll come out with a profit over a large number of races.
Jeff
Consty1 wrote:Are you guys essentially saying that scalping is actually a waste of time and effort?