Lets see how City react to their first slip up,
I think it will be the first of many myself,
still think Utd and Chelsea are far better teams.
I can only see one winner at the moment but the race is long.
Premier league 2011/12
It is, and whilst United were brilliant up front against Chelsea, Fergie himself admitted there was lots of sloppy play.
IMHO, United's problem is that, whilst they've got brilliant, world-class players, they've also got guys like Park Ji Sung and Fletcher, who work hard but lack any real cutting edge...
Jeff
IMHO, United's problem is that, whilst they've got brilliant, world-class players, they've also got guys like Park Ji Sung and Fletcher, who work hard but lack any real cutting edge...
Jeff
freddy wrote: I can only see one winner at the moment but the race is long.
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
I never understood why Man Utd have a player like south park amongst their squad. Is it a marketing move?
Park works very hard, and although he only does simple stuff, he does it well.
But give me a versatile and creative player like Ronaldino over him any day - a guy who works hard AND can create opportunities out of nothing!
I'll never understand why Fergie started Park in the Champions League final a couple of years ago though, but left Tevez out! Madness!
Jeff
But give me a versatile and creative player like Ronaldino over him any day - a guy who works hard AND can create opportunities out of nothing!
I'll never understand why Fergie started Park in the Champions League final a couple of years ago though, but left Tevez out! Madness!
Jeff
I think Utd have a lot of players who are extremely underated by alot of fans / experts,
But it's clear to see imo they more than get the job done when required,
which is more than can be said for alot of supposed world class multi million pound signings
.
But it's clear to see imo they more than get the job done when required,
which is more than can be said for alot of supposed world class multi million pound signings
.Maybe, but as Barcelona proved, there's a level of football that we haven't yet reached, which we need to aspire to as a club.
IMHO, you're only going to reach that level though having flair players like Rooney and Nani. Hard working players like Anderson and Fletcher might help you grind out a 0-1 win against Swansea on a wet December evening, but the likes of Barcelona would run rings around them...
Jeff
IMHO, you're only going to reach that level though having flair players like Rooney and Nani. Hard working players like Anderson and Fletcher might help you grind out a 0-1 win against Swansea on a wet December evening, but the likes of Barcelona would run rings around them...
Jeff
freddy wrote:I think Utd have a lot of players who are extremely underated by alot of fans / experts
Fergie is one of those guys like Brian Clough who specialises in the art of the impossible - Never underestimate him!freddy wrote: But i suspect grinding out a result is the only way to beat the current barca side,
your not going to outplay them.
If Arsenal can't do it, there's no point in us even trying...freddy wrote:Arsenal tried that
Jeff
I actually find the Wenger situation quite interesting.
Graham Taylor had 2 incredible spells as Watford manager. Firstly, he took them from the 4th division to runners-up in the 1st division + reaching the 1984 FA Cup Final. He left for a bigger job at Villa, and then returned to Watford years later when they were in League 1. He achieved a double promotion into the Premier League, however they went straight back down. Taylor then resigned, saying the relationship he had with everyone at Watford made him feel that he would never be sacked. He didn't think this was in Watford's interest.
Similarly, Brian Clough was unsackable at Notts Forest. He achieved amazing things there, but he retired too late, he was ill and clearly past his best. He started playing his most creative players Roy Keane and Nigel Clough out of position, and the season ended in relegation. It was a tragic end to the career of a true great, but it was particularly tragic for Forest because it was the first season of the Premier League. Forest have had 20 years of underachievement and financial hardship since. I sometimes wonder how different life for Nottingham Forest would have been, if somebody had the guts to ask Cloughie to step down at Christmas 1992/93, when it was obviously going wrong and he was making bizarre decisions.
I'm not suggesting Wenger will relegate Arsenal, but I am suggesting the board feel it's impossible to sack him. Arsenal have gone backwards, nobody can deny that. Wenger has to take the blame, but if he's too ignorant to see that, or too proud to resign, then Arsenal have serious problems.
Graham Taylor had 2 incredible spells as Watford manager. Firstly, he took them from the 4th division to runners-up in the 1st division + reaching the 1984 FA Cup Final. He left for a bigger job at Villa, and then returned to Watford years later when they were in League 1. He achieved a double promotion into the Premier League, however they went straight back down. Taylor then resigned, saying the relationship he had with everyone at Watford made him feel that he would never be sacked. He didn't think this was in Watford's interest.
Similarly, Brian Clough was unsackable at Notts Forest. He achieved amazing things there, but he retired too late, he was ill and clearly past his best. He started playing his most creative players Roy Keane and Nigel Clough out of position, and the season ended in relegation. It was a tragic end to the career of a true great, but it was particularly tragic for Forest because it was the first season of the Premier League. Forest have had 20 years of underachievement and financial hardship since. I sometimes wonder how different life for Nottingham Forest would have been, if somebody had the guts to ask Cloughie to step down at Christmas 1992/93, when it was obviously going wrong and he was making bizarre decisions.
I'm not suggesting Wenger will relegate Arsenal, but I am suggesting the board feel it's impossible to sack him. Arsenal have gone backwards, nobody can deny that. Wenger has to take the blame, but if he's too ignorant to see that, or too proud to resign, then Arsenal have serious problems.
Barton claims he was on brink of Arsenal switch before infamous Gervinho clash - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... z1YgKmIvEE
If Wenger was seriously thinking of bringing a thug into a side whose morale is already at rock bottom, it raises questions about his judgement...
Jeff
If Wenger was seriously thinking of bringing a thug into a side whose morale is already at rock bottom, it raises questions about his judgement...
Jeff
The Arsenal board would never sack Wenger, the fact is they just don't have the money to spend that, as a company trying to portray itself as strong, they allow people to believe. All this about having 'substantial funds' to spend just depends on your definition of substantial. Last financial year they made an overall loss. For almost a decade now Wenger has kept them at the top on a transfer budget smaller than most mid table clubs. If the board sacked him and didn't give his successor an extra 40 million a year to spend then they'd plummet like a stone. If you take the three clubs that have an extroadinary finacial advantage (for various reasons) out of the equation then it becomes clear that they've actually done remarkably well the last few seasons.
Arsenal are hoping that once financial fair play kicks in (if it's properly enforced) they'll find themselves in a very strong position. IMO if anyone is to blame there it's the board for hithero not making enough on the commercial side abroad to provide more money to strengthen the team properly. I remember reading on the Swiss Ramblers blog how little they make compared to other top clubs from the commercial side, the last few years with the style of football they play under Wenger and the trophies they won before they had a massive opportunity to maximise revenues from abroad but make a only poultry amount compared to others. If Peter Kenyon et al hadn't maximised things so incredibly well 15 years ago at Man Utd they themselves may well be struggling to compete with the clubs unfairly funded with oil money, though if and when fair play comes in and if Man Utd can get rid of the noose of debt from around their necks then for many years to come they'll be able to blow everyone out of the water with the income they generate. If it wasn't for the debt they'd be able to spend something like 80 million a season on transfers and still meet the new regulations
Arsenal are hoping that once financial fair play kicks in (if it's properly enforced) they'll find themselves in a very strong position. IMO if anyone is to blame there it's the board for hithero not making enough on the commercial side abroad to provide more money to strengthen the team properly. I remember reading on the Swiss Ramblers blog how little they make compared to other top clubs from the commercial side, the last few years with the style of football they play under Wenger and the trophies they won before they had a massive opportunity to maximise revenues from abroad but make a only poultry amount compared to others. If Peter Kenyon et al hadn't maximised things so incredibly well 15 years ago at Man Utd they themselves may well be struggling to compete with the clubs unfairly funded with oil money, though if and when fair play comes in and if Man Utd can get rid of the noose of debt from around their necks then for many years to come they'll be able to blow everyone out of the water with the income they generate. If it wasn't for the debt they'd be able to spend something like 80 million a season on transfers and still meet the new regulations
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pdupre1961
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:01 pm
Jeff, you're right. Best in England - I think NOT, IMHO Chelsea are still the best. And, after today Manchester City (Utd 1 - 6 City) are second best.Ferru123 wrote:Maybe, but as Barcelona proved, there's a level of football that we haven't yet reached, which we need to aspire to as a club.
Paul
even barca could only mangage a 3-1 scoreline Hi Freddy
Year after year, the critics talk about how Man U are a spent force, and year after year Fergie brings back trophies to Old Trafford!
But I think it will be harder this year. City have a team full of world class players, they have great confidence, and the way they passed the ball today reminded me of Barcelona.
Pdupre - Chelsea are 6 points behind City and a point behind United, and they didn't win anything last season. So I don't see how you can say that they are the best side in the Premiership!
Jeff
Year after year, the critics talk about how Man U are a spent force, and year after year Fergie brings back trophies to Old Trafford!
But I think it will be harder this year. City have a team full of world class players, they have great confidence, and the way they passed the ball today reminded me of Barcelona.
Pdupre - Chelsea are 6 points behind City and a point behind United, and they didn't win anything last season. So I don't see how you can say that they are the best side in the Premiership!
Jeff
freddy wrote: the only thing that matters is the league table at the end of the year and Utd have won 4 of the last 5.