It's more a spiral than a cycle!, but agreed. Eurobonds or bust.Euler wrote:Until somebody steps in to decisively break this cycle, it's not going to get any better.
Eurozone debt crisis
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superfrank
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I wonder how long it will take the EU leaders to actually realise just how serious this is getting now? I can't help but think it will take a significant crisis for them to actually agree anything. It seems we have loads of leaders but no actual leader in the EU.
I agree.
We need a strong leader; a Churchillian figure who basically says "Let's do whatever it takes. If the voters punish us, so be it. Too much is at stake to worry about domestic politics."
Instead, we're ruled by a bunch of bland PR men and women, most of whom were probably selected because they were deemed to be Estalishment types who wouldn't rock the boat and cause the government embarrassment.
Mrs Thatcher may have had her faults, but she's the kind of passionate, 'no bs' leader we need in a crisis like this!
Jeff
We need a strong leader; a Churchillian figure who basically says "Let's do whatever it takes. If the voters punish us, so be it. Too much is at stake to worry about domestic politics."
Instead, we're ruled by a bunch of bland PR men and women, most of whom were probably selected because they were deemed to be Estalishment types who wouldn't rock the boat and cause the government embarrassment.
Mrs Thatcher may have had her faults, but she's the kind of passionate, 'no bs' leader we need in a crisis like this!
Jeff
Euler wrote:I wonder how long it will take the EU leaders to actually realise just how serious this is getting now? I can't help but think it will take a significant crisis for them to actually agree anything. It seems we have loads of leaders but no actual leader in the EU.
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superfrank
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"we'll do whatever it takes" was the line of Brown, Bernanke, King etc.
we need them to do the right thing, i.e. stop trying to prop everything up and accept that they f*cked it all up!
the EU is a joke. undemocratic, self-serving and useless too.
we need them to do the right thing, i.e. stop trying to prop everything up and accept that they f*cked it all up!
the EU is a joke. undemocratic, self-serving and useless too.
I zipped around the city yesterday to speak to a few friends and the consensus is there is no confidence in the ability of the politicians to achieve a solution. As a result business and investors are not investing at all and the system is grinding to a halt again. There really needs to be an injection of confidence into the whole system or it will get worse.
I agree.
I'm not sure what the solution is, but it needs to be drastic. Half measures and empty rhetoric just won't stop the slide.
IMHO, Cameron needs to think the unthinkable and jeopardise the Coalition with far more extreme austerity. If Vince Cable & Co reach for the nuclear option and there's a general election, then so be it. Let the British people decide their future - a Greek one, where we get to live off borrowed money for a bit longer, or one where we accept short-term sacrifice in order to avoid becoming a second world country...
Jeff
I'm not sure what the solution is, but it needs to be drastic. Half measures and empty rhetoric just won't stop the slide.
IMHO, Cameron needs to think the unthinkable and jeopardise the Coalition with far more extreme austerity. If Vince Cable & Co reach for the nuclear option and there's a general election, then so be it. Let the British people decide their future - a Greek one, where we get to live off borrowed money for a bit longer, or one where we accept short-term sacrifice in order to avoid becoming a second world country...
Jeff
Euler wrote:There really needs to be an injection of confidence into the whole system or it will get worse.
According to the BBC 'Government net debt now stands at 61.4% of annual economic output, up from 55.3% a year ago.' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15000130)
So clearly efforts to get the deficit down aren't working.
And I think it's fanciful to suggest that, out of nowhere, the growth figures that the government's plans are based on are going to materialise.
So we have a choice. We can assume zero or negative growth, and cut spending accordingly. Or we can take the Ed Balls position, and chuck loads of borrowed money at the problem. America tried that approach, and it got them nowhere. Why anyone thinks that it would work over here is beyond me!
Jeff
So clearly efforts to get the deficit down aren't working.
And I think it's fanciful to suggest that, out of nowhere, the growth figures that the government's plans are based on are going to materialise.
So we have a choice. We can assume zero or negative growth, and cut spending accordingly. Or we can take the Ed Balls position, and chuck loads of borrowed money at the problem. America tried that approach, and it got them nowhere. Why anyone thinks that it would work over here is beyond me!
Jeff
hgodden wrote: Out of interest, how extreme are we talking here?
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superfrank
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I'd start with 20% off every non-front line public sector salary with a maximum salary equal to the prime minister's (so those at the top set an example). 'would save a fortune and put us on the right track.hgodden wrote:Out of interest, how extreme are we talking here?Ferru123 wrote:
far more extreme austerity.
Jeff
I was thinking more in terms of policies and what else to cut, every time my mind sees the word 'extreme' my imagination starts running wild 
The deficit was always going to go up this year as there were already many spending commitments locked in. Their current plan does significantly reduce it in the years to come. If anything they're likely to go slightly more in the opposite direction and focus more on growth
The deficit was always going to go up this year as there were already many spending commitments locked in. Their current plan does significantly reduce it in the years to come. If anything they're likely to go slightly more in the opposite direction and focus more on growth
They might call it focusing on growth, but whether it gives us growth or merely means adding to our debt mountain is debatable...
Jeff
Jeff
hgodden wrote:If anything they're likely to go slightly more in the opposite direction and focus more on growth
Last edited by Iron on Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'd bring back birching & make prison far more austere.
That can only help the economy!
Oh, and I'd take TVs away from prisoners. Give them books if they want to kill time. OK, many of them can't read, but taking away their TVs would give them a hell of an incentive to learn!
Jeff
That can only help the economy!
Oh, and I'd take TVs away from prisoners. Give them books if they want to kill time. OK, many of them can't read, but taking away their TVs would give them a hell of an incentive to learn!
Jeff
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CaerMyrddin
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Here there's a debate about increasing the electricity cost by 30%. That's hard!