Account suspended for premium charge avoidance

[andyfuller]

If I earn £250 I can only earn £100 net. If somebody else earns £250 they will earn £200, double my best possible result. It suddenly becomes a big incentive for people to offer advice to others when the learner can earn double what the teacher does. That's not avoidance it's common sense.

Common sense as long as the money they earn after tax etc from educating others is more than the money they could get by using the knowledge themselves and paying 60%. Best option imo is to try and automate the strategies and go sit on a beach and earn 40%

[andyfuller]

probably you did not read well.
Betfair has only confiscated my money!
From what little I have informed me that I could understand the other accounts (which he mistakenly associated Betfair) had balance equal to 0.
I have never used any other account!

RUSH1980 - can you clear up if you were paying the 20% PC prior to BF taking your money? If not why not?

[Innertube]

Then Betfair raise the charges again because it puts too much stress on their servers and 'damages the eco system'.

[Groovyelms]

If as Private better says he is acting independently I would of thought proving collusion between accounts as betfair appear to be claiming would be nye on impossible...

On another tack what happens if Ladbrooks etc win over the 60% pc charge limit I wonder how this fits in with their strategies

As PW says this has to be clarified in there T and c...

Because I was considering going out to oz just to catch up with the old mucker "The Badger"... on second thoughts......

[andyfuller]

Then Betfair raise the charges again because it puts too much stress on their servers and 'damages the eco system'.

I would agree this is likely to be an area they clamp down on more in the future if more and more people start 'botting' their activities and it causes their infrastructure issues if it doesn't though and the systems cope nothing should in theory change as Betfair have said they are happy with the profitability of the PC3 customers when they pay between 40% and 60% of their Gross Profit in PC. Of course the level at which Betfair are happy with in terms of profitabilty may change in the future where by the 40% to 60% is not sufficient.

[Euler]

Common sense as long as the money they earn after tax etc from educating others is more than the money they could get by using the knowledge themselves and paying 60%. Best option imo is to try and automate the strategies and go sit on a beach and earn 40%

If you ask me it was bots and quirks that Betfair targetted with the latest incarnation of the PC. Therefore it's a bit ironic that the hike will almost certainly explode automated use of the exchange.

[Euler]

Of course the level at which Betfair are happy with in terms of profitabilty may change in the future where by the 40% to 60% is not sufficient.

I was banned from their forum quite a few years ago for suggestion that new charges in the future were very likely.

[andyfuller]

If you ask me it was bots and quirks that Betfair targetted with the latest incarnation of the PC. Therefore it's a bit ironic that the hike will almost certainly explode automated use of the exchange.

Yes it is something I have never looked at before but will be over the winter as if I can automate my strategies I may as well get 40% whilst doing other things with my time.

Peter's post about it for those who missed it first time round, Botfair:http://www.betangel.com/blog_wp/2011/07/20/botfair/

[hgodden]

All this of course depends on the massive assumption that someone can just copies other peoples 'strategies'. Different styles of trading suit different people, someone who is a born striker can't suddenly become a defender no matter how much coaching they have.

Personally I don't use predefined 'strategies' and have to reply on my reading of the market to decide what to do - in fact I may well do different things on different days in exactly the same type of situation (although I may not be the most efficient trader out there ) My point is, how many traders out there actually use replicable strategies that can be articulated and copies by others? Are there REALLY that many? Or am I just stuck in the stone age And if those strategies really are so straight forward that any idiot can just roll up and learn and implement them (ignoring the psychological and personality traits that are neccessary even to be trading well in any case) then wouldn't it be just as easy to run a bot to put those strategies to work for you?

[andyfuller]

For a totally different angle and to add fire to the conspiracy theory fire, could this be a way of testing the water to see if they could get away with doing away with the lifetime allowance of £250,000 and apply PC3 to all accounts

[Rush1980]

probably you did not read well.
Betfair has only confiscated my money!
From what little I have informed me that I could understand the other accounts (which he mistakenly associated Betfair) had balance equal to 0.
I have never used any other account!

RUSH1980 - can you clear up if you were paying the 20% PC prior to BF taking your money? If not why not?

Ooopss... I lost a message.

No problem.
I am glad to explain you my situation.
Talk and blow off steam is good for my heart.
I never paid the premium charge.
My account has never been subject to the premium charge.
I have started operations in June 2010, the activity continued until August 2010.
I have gained about 100,000 euros.
About the premium charge, my commission was less than 5% but I had not yet reached 250 events.
Surely I would soon pay the premium charge, even now I would pay the new premium charge.
What Betfair thought?
You are a cheat, your business started before June 2010, you are a nominee or you used the nominees before.
This is only a my reconstruction because Betfair don't explain nothing!

[andyfuller]

Ah makes a lot more sense now you have cleared up why they are saying you fell foul of the rules. I couldn't figure it out before but now you have said you traded less than 250 markets it makes sense. Thanks for that. So basically they are saying when we add your acocunt with these other accounts you have traded more than 250 markets and therefore would meet the qualification.

To make that much money from scratch on less than 250 markets is outstanding I would say you have a strong legal case, at least in the UK you would, I don't have a clue about else where I am afraid.

[Iron]

Given that Betfair operates under a Gibraltar licence (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011 ... oid-uk-tax), would courts in other territories have any juristiction over it?

Jeff

I would say you have a strong legal case, at least in the UK you would, I don't have a clue about else where I am afraid.

[freddy]

I would imagine, that anyone who opens an account and is instantly profitable is going to get alot of attention from the betfair police.

Likewise long term users who were once losers and have managed to turn it around and become winners.

errm so thats basically everyone then, is it not
not much incentive to do anything anymore really.

[Rush1980]

Ah makes a lot more sense now you have cleared up why they are saying you fell foul of the rules. I couldn't figure it out before but now you have said you traded less than 250 markets it makes sense. Thanks for that. So basically they are saying when we add your acocunt with these other accounts you have traded more than 250 markets and therefore would meet the qualification.

To make that much money from scratch on less than 250 markets is outstanding I would say you have a strong legal case, at least in the UK you would, I don't have a clue about else where I am afraid.

Yes, the result was truly outstanding.
I think it is the product of my previous experience in financial trading associated with the quality of what I learnt in the course.
I think it was the extraordinary result to attract the attention on me for Betfair.
I am a customer of Betfair International, and I believe that the jurisdiction is Malta.
I think the best way is to a class action against Betfair.