Excuses, Excuses, Excuses

[Emmson]

The sale of the gold was reinvested back in the UK’s reserves and so had no palpable effect on the UK consumer or economy as it was not used for public spending or to pay off debt.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/inves ... nder-cost/

[Archery1969]

Between 1999 and 2002, when gold prices were at their lowest in 20 years, following an extended bear market. During this time, Gordon Brown, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, decided to sell approximately half of the UK's gold reserves in a series of auctions. This amounted to 395 tonnes of gold sold for a total of $3.5 billion.

The UK government's intention to sell gold and reinvest the proceeds in foreign currency deposits, including euros, was announced on 7 May 1999, when the price of gold stood at US$282.40 per ounce. The official stated reason for this sale was to diversify the assets of the UK's reserves away from gold, which was deemed to be too volatile. However, many critics believe that the decision to invest 40% of the gold sale proceeds into euro denominated assets was to show public support for the new euro currency. The gold sales funded a like-for-like purchase of financial instruments in different currencies. Studies performed by HM Treasury had shown that the overall volatility of the UK's reserves could be reduced by 20% from the sale.

The advance notice of the substantial sales drove the price of gold down by 10% by the time of the first auction on 6 July 1999. With many gold traders shorting, gold reached a low point of US$252.80 on 20 July. The UK eventually sold about 395 tonnes (12,700,000 ozt) of gold over 17 auctions from July 1999 to March 2002, at an average price of about US$275 per ounce, raising approximately US$3.5 billion.

To deal with this and other prospective sales of gold reserves, a consortium of central banks - including the European Central Bank and the Bank of England - were pushed to sign the Washington Agreement on Gold in September 1999, limiting gold sales to 400 tonnes (13,000,000 ozt) per year for 5 years. This triggered a sharp rise in the price of gold, from around US$260 per ounce to around $330 per ounce in two weeks, before the price fell away again into 2000 and early 2001. The Central Bank Gold Agreement was renewed in 2004 and 2009.

Brown's actions have attracted considerable criticism, particularly concerning his timing, his decision to announce the move in advance, and the use of an auction. The decision to sell gold at the low point in the price cycle has been likened, with hindsight, by Quentin Letts[11] to the mistakes in 1992 that led to Black Wednesday, when the UK was forced to withdraw from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, which HM Treasury has estimated cost the UK taxpayer around £3.3 billion.

It has also been argued that the sale of the gold reserves was a positive decision in that gold had been historically under-performing and was paying no dividends to the Exchequer and the sale enabled the UK Government to pay off a substantial part of the national debt and keep repayment interest rates down on the remainder.

As of December 2023, the UK retained a gold reserve of 310 tonnes (9,980,000 ozt). In today's market that is worth £41,517,000.

So, the UK had 705 tonnes of gold but now has 310 tonnes. Over half as gone and not replaced.

[firlandsfarm]

What took them a day to show how incompetent the old government was? ...

All they had to do was turn up & speak coherently - it was a very low bar.

Anyhow, in the spirit this thread, what are the conservative excuses for the state of prisons, NHS, cost of living, education, schools, water, armed forces, no-deal brexit & highest tax burden in post war times?

The only thing we can be sure about is there are plenty of more horror stories still to be unearthed as the extent of the carnage they have concealed is made plain.

So you don't have anything to quote that they did in "a day to show how incompetent the old government was"? It's a typical example of band wagoning without any facts!

[oferns]

Is this the publics gold that the treasury took full possession of? @archery1969

[sionascaig]

What took them a day to show how incompetent the old government was? ...

All they had to do was turn up & speak coherently - it was a very low bar.

Anyhow, in the spirit this thread, what are the conservative excuses for the state of prisons, NHS, cost of living, education, schools, water, armed forces, no-deal brexit & highest tax burden in post war times?

The only thing we can be sure about is there are plenty of more horror stories still to be unearthed as the extent of the carnage they have concealed is made plain.

So you don't have anything to quote that they did in "a day to show how incompetent the old government was"? It's a typical example of band wagoning without any facts!

As I said, all they had to do was turn up and speak coherently..

Gravitas: Boris Johnson goes 'vroom vroom brah brah'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flXjmEE ... annel=WION

And how can we forget get the Pepa Pig debacle at the CBI.. Or the 50+ ministers that resigned due to him lying repeatedly?

Excuses, excuses, excuses?

[oferns]

The money that came from selling gold had ZERO effect on economy as it was reinvested into other currencies, it was not used for public spending.

Currencies lost value, whereas gold hasn't.

[firlandsfarm]

Ed Miliband orders immediate ban on new drilling in North Sea
This Labour voter of last week does not appreciate this move one bit.

Yeah it's really 'green' to increase the carbon outputs by shipping fuel halfway round the world!

Labour proposes to ease planning restrictions on onshore wind farms
One the other hand I do like this move.

I'm fed up with the local countryside being ruined but these oversized windmills ... what's wrong with building them out at sea where they are not a blot on the landscape (and at the same time giving sea life a shelter from the fishing boats being less keen to weave their way through such obstacles).

Labour brings back compulsory housebuilding targets
and this

Well that's a 'compulsory' target that has as much teeth as a jelly fish! Who is punished if a 'compulsory' target is not met? Local Councillors? Developers? Maybe landowners who refused to sell? Shall we throw them in jail? It's a nonsense threat but I can see why it appeals to Labour, it sounds good at the time and is then allowed to be forgotten when not carried out.

[firlandsfarm]

As I said, all they had to do was turn up and speak coherently..

Is that the limit of your reasoning!!!

[firlandsfarm]

Thsi thread feels like it's skirting on the edge of causing a ruckus.

Basics are western economies are heavily indebted, after 2008 Financial crisis, Covid and then the War in Ukraine. Putin chose his time to start the war as he knew the west was weakened.

Whenever you get these dislocations you do get upheaval.

Also when anybody gets power, whether it be a company or country they always do the same thing. On my god, what a mess, but don't worry I have a solution.... It's the oldest trick in the book. Everybody does it.

Labours ideology is equality of outcome, so there solution is to tax as much as possible anybody that has money.

Converstation ideology is equality of opportunity, so there solution is to free up private capital.

Both would argue either is the solution.

Ten years later there will be a discussion as to why those policies didn't work and they will be voted out.

Politicians will move on and the problem with be left with somebody else.

Re The NHS, yeah, everybody loves it, but it is unsustainable. The budget only ever goes up and is compounded the budget each year. So that's completely unsustainable in the long run. I checked the NHS budget and if you dig below the headlines numbers most of the budget is spent on wages and pensions. Everybody expects those two items to rise above inflation, so if you extrapolate that you eventually end up with a system where more and more of the budget is spent on those items. That's not going to work.

But hold on, I have a solution for that and its...... (Insert ideology)

Exactly

[sionascaig]

I just fed up with gross incompetence, lies, in-fighting & corruption that characterised the old government. As one of the "old" Tories said "this lot can't even do corruption well without messing it up".

How will labour fair - no idea...

The Tory party are at present a complete lost cause with no sense of what they stand for, as evidenced by the continual bitter in-party fighting.

Labour "appear" to be the least worst option at the moment. For how long that will last, again no idea...

[Archery1969]

Don’t panic, it it wasn’t for the European Union entry being lumped together then it could be worse with UK being in second place etc.

[Crazyskier]

TLDR: We're past the point of no return. Our once green and pleasant land for which my Grandparents and others fought and died for, now bears little if any resemblance to the polite, Christian, English society in which I grew up during the 70s.

I'm off to Spain to retire and play golf and wash my hands of it all. God help old Blighty.

CS

[Archery1969]

TLDR: We're past the point of no return. Our once green and pleasant land for which my Grandparents and others fought and died for, now bears little if any resemblance to the polite, Christian, English society in which I grew up during the 70s.

I'm off to Spain to retire and play golf and wash my hands of it all. God help old Blighty.

CS

Agreed, I saw it coming, so went to Canada.

Good luck and all the best in Spain.

[greenmark]

Thsi thread feels like it's skirting on the edge of causing a ruckus.

Basics are western economies are heavily indebted, after 2008 Financial crisis, Covid and then the War in Ukraine. Putin chose his time to start the war as he knew the west was weakened.

Whenever you get these dislocations you do get upheaval.

Also when anybody gets power, whether it be a company or country they always do the same thing. On my god, what a mess, but don't worry I have a solution.... It's the oldest trick in the book. Everybody does it.

Labours ideology is equality of outcome, so there solution is to tax as much as possible anybody that has money.

Converstation ideology is equality of opportunity, so there solution is to free up private capital.

Both would argue either is the solution.

Ten years later there will be a discussion as to why those policies didn't work and they will be voted out.

Politicians will move on and the problem with be left with somebody else.

Re The NHS, yeah, everybody loves it, but it is unsustainable. The budget only ever goes up and is compounded the budget each year. So that's completely unsustainable in the long run. I checked the NHS budget and if you dig below the headlines numbers most of the budget is spent on wages and pensions. Everybody expects those two items to rise above inflation, so if you extrapolate that you eventually end up with a system where more and more of the budget is spent on those items. That's not going to work.

But hold on, I have a solution for that and its...... (Insert ideology)

Exactly

Imagine if all this forum's contributors all pulled in the same direction! I'd want to be a member of that club.

[Derek27]

Our once green and pleasant land for which my Grandparents and others fought and died for, now bears little if any resemblance to the polite, Christian, English society in which I grew up during the 70s.

CS

Do you mean the polite, Christian, English society where racist abuse hurled around on the street was the norm?

Best of luck in Spain anyway.