Excuses, Excuses, Excuses

[Archery1969]

There could be trouble ahead....

The charity Age UK says they "strongly oppose" the chancellor's decision to restrict how many pensioners can claim the winter fuel payment.

They say that more than one in three pensioners entitled to pension credit don't receive it and that around a million older people have weekly incomes less than £50 above the poverty line.

"With winter now just over the horizon, the government should halt their proposed change and think again," says charity director Caroline Abrahams.

[sniffer66]

Junior Doctors to be offered 22% over 2 years.

My god, this is going to cost a fortune.



Why should they get 11% per year when everyone else getting 5.6% ?

What I've never understood with public sector pay rises is that they aren't performance related. In every private sector role I was in, my objectives and KPIs were clearly defined and agreed with me, to be tough but achievable - some as an individual and some as a team. If i didn't achieve my objectives I received a reduced pay rise or none at all, if I over achieved I received better than my peers.

My wife was a teacher and regularly worked harder than many who were coasting in her school. At the end of the year she received exactly the same pay rise as the makeweights. Where is the incentive to perform ??

[Archery1969]

Junior Doctors to be offered 22% over 2 years.

My god, this is going to cost a fortune.



Why should they get 11% per year when everyone else getting 5.6% ?

What I've never understood with public sector pay rises is that they aren't performance related. In every private sector role I was in, my objectives and KPIs were clearly defined and agreed with me, to be tough but achievable - some as an individual and some as a team. If i didn't achieve my objectives I received a reduced pay rise or none at all, if I over achieved I received better than my peers.

My wife was a teacher and regularly worked harder than many who were coasting in her school. At the end of the year she received exactly the same pay rise as the makeweights. Where is the incentive to perform ??

Yeah, I’ve never really understood how it works in the public sector. I think it use to be like, do the minimum (not your wife) get paid, good pension, job for life.

But I guess if you tried to implement performance related pay then the unions would be all over it like a ferret up a drain pipe.

[Euler]

Junior Doctors to be offered 22% over 2 years.

My god, this is going to cost a fortune.



Why should they get 11% per year when everyone else getting 5.6% ?

What I've never understood with public sector pay rises is that they aren't performance related. In every private sector role I was in, my objectives and KPIs were clearly defined and agreed with me, to be tough but achievable - some as an individual and some as a team. If i didn't achieve my objectives I received a reduced pay rise or none at all, if I over achieved I received better than my peers.

My wife was a teacher and regularly worked harder than many who were coasting in her school. At the end of the year she received exactly the same pay rise as the makeweights. Where is the incentive to perform ??

Yeah, I’ve never really understood how it works in the public sector. I think it use to be like, do the minimum (not your wife) get paid, good pension, job for life.

But I guess if you tried to implement performance related pay then the unions would be all over it like a ferret up a drain pipe.

This is the key problem with the public sector.

Wages compound away on a massive scale with no incentive to perform.

If you try and impose one they are up in arms. They also go up in arms when their pay doesn't track the private sector. But holding down a job and getting a rise in the private sector is not a foregone conclusion.

This needs to change or else government spending will eventually ballon to incredible proportions.

Also, you don't increase productivity by increase wages, just cost. Services don't improve.

[Archery1969]

What I've never understood with public sector pay rises is that they aren't performance related. In every private sector role I was in, my objectives and KPIs were clearly defined and agreed with me, to be tough but achievable - some as an individual and some as a team. If i didn't achieve my objectives I received a reduced pay rise or none at all, if I over achieved I received better than my peers.

My wife was a teacher and regularly worked harder than many who were coasting in her school. At the end of the year she received exactly the same pay rise as the makeweights. Where is the incentive to perform ??

Yeah, I’ve never really understood how it works in the public sector. I think it use to be like, do the minimum (not your wife) get paid, good pension, job for life.

But I guess if you tried to implement performance related pay then the unions would be all over it like a ferret up a drain pipe.

This is the key problem with the public sector.

Wages compound away on a massive scale with no incentive to perform.

If you try and impose one they are up in arms. They also go up in arms when their pay doesn't track the private sector. But holding down a job and getting a rise in the private sector is not a foregone conclusion.

This needs to change or else government spending will eventually ballon to incredible proportions.

Also, you don't increase productivity by increase wages, just cost. Services don't improve.

+ 1

There is one group of public sector workers who I would give a bumper pay rise to and have it backdated to 1940. Yes, you guessed it, the Armed Forces. All ranks upto and including Warranty Officer 1st Class. 30% minimum.

[Archery1969]

BBC reporting 10 million pensioners will lose their £300 winter fuel payments.

That’s allot of potential voters pissed off in one day.

Come the budget in October there going to be allot more pissed off voters aged 55 and over.

Assuming they all make it to the next election then Labour had better turned the economy around otherwise it could be carnage on a bigger scale than just delivered.

[Derek27]

BBC reporting 10 million pensioners will lose their £300 winter fuel payments.

That’s allot of potential voters pissed off in one day.

Come the budget in October there going to be allot more pissed off voters aged 55 and over.

Assuming they all make it to the next election then Labour had better turned the economy around otherwise it could be carnage on a bigger scale than just delivered.

It doesn't matter. They've won the election and got five years.

If the junior doctors accept the pay deal, Labour will have achieved in just three weeks what the Tories failed to do in over a year.

[Archery1969]

Assistant to Racheal Reeves just agreed on Newsnight that in October there will need to be around £15 billion of tax increases and further cuts, probably welfare.

The reason for the black hole of £20 billion is because £9 billion was due to public sector pay rises which werent known but Labour has agreed to fund.

I think its going to be a honeymoon of another 4 months and then the wheels will start to come off.

What a shit show and basically lieing by all MP's.

[Archery1969]

So, the real reasons for the black hole...

Facts:

1. £11.6bn to give public sector workers recommended pay rises that are bigger than the 2% budgeted for by the last government.
2. £6.4bn on “undisclosed” asylum and immigration costs.
3. £1.5bn more to cover NHS pressures from strikes.
4. £1.7bn more in military support for Ukraine than was planned.
5. £1.6bn more in payments to private rail companies after a weaker than expected rebound in passenger demand after Covid.
6. Higher than expected inflation since overall departmental budgets for this year were set in 2021.

There you go, make your own minds up.

[firlandsfarm]

What I've never understood with public sector pay rises is that they aren't performance related. In every private sector role I was in, my objectives and KPIs were clearly defined and agreed with me, to be tough but achievable - some as an individual and some as a team. If i didn't achieve my objectives I received a reduced pay rise or none at all, if I over achieved I received better than my peers.

My wife was a teacher and regularly worked harder than many who were coasting in her school. At the end of the year she received exactly the same pay rise as the makeweights. Where is the incentive to perform ??

I understand your point but the problem I always found as a manager/director responsible for the pay rises of my teams (within specific budgets) was to avoid favouritism (including positive anti-favouritism to avoid showing favouritism!). Measurable tasks were easy, the 'opinioned' tasks presented the problem. How do you performance relate the pay of say immigration officer?

[firlandsfarm]

If the junior doctors accept the pay deal, Labour will have achieved in just three weeks what the Tories failed to do in over a year.

Well yes ... and no. What they will have achieved is the buying out of the problem and the invitation for more high pay increases to come. The Conservatives were not trying to achieve that. They were trying to maintain a sustainable level of pay increases despite political manoeuvrings by unions.

[jimibt]

this bbc article is a sobering read on the above for all us tree hugging lefties and Atilla the Hun tories: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6p24zpeg05o

the bit that caught my attention (in relation to all of us [we know better] political armchair detectives) was this part:

The OBR clearly does suspect that there was a large hole left in the public finances before the election.

Just how black that hole is depends on whether you think the government really had any choice over its acceptance of 5-6% pay settlements for public sector workers.

But that aside, the OBR has made clear there were billions of pounds of spending pressures that it did not know about when preparing its last forecast in March.

The spending was only revealed to them last week, the letter said, and given the “seriousness of the issue” the OBR has launched a review into the March forecast to assess the “adequacy” and “assurances” provided by the Conservatives.

it then goes on to say:

This revelatory letter does significantly undermine the notion put forward by the opposition - that is, the former government - that everyone had access to the OBR forecasts, therefore the “books were open”.

But this should not have come as a surprise. The OBR warned last year that the errors in its borrowing forecasts were largely down to underestimates in government spending. The OBR said that it was legally obliged to accept the figures it was given.

i'm only the messenger, no opinion expressed

[sionascaig]

Weren't the doctors looking at a 35% real terms pay reduction over the term of the Tories and so had reasonable grounds for a large increase especially in the context that doctors, nurses & healthcare professionals in the UK are some of the lowest paid in Europe?

We have been haemorrhaging staff to other countries and professions - maybe not a lot of choice about it.

Not sure how private sector pay has faired over the same period but suspect not good either..

One huge difference between the two however is the civil service pension scheme - it is still largely final salary related which is a huge benefit. Gold dust in itself!

If you wanted to reduce future costs in fair way and make consistent with private sector that is clearly the place to start.

[Archery1969]

this bbc article is a sobering read on the above for all us tree hugging lefties and Atilla the Hun tories: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6p24zpeg05o

the bit that caught my attention (in relation to all of us [we know better] political armchair detectives) was this part:

The OBR clearly does suspect that there was a large hole left in the public finances before the election.

Just how black that hole is depends on whether you think the government really had any choice over its acceptance of 5-6% pay settlements for public sector workers.

But that aside, the OBR has made clear there were billions of pounds of spending pressures that it did not know about when preparing its last forecast in March.

The spending was only revealed to them last week, the letter said, and given the “seriousness of the issue” the OBR has launched a review into the March forecast to assess the “adequacy” and “assurances” provided by the Conservatives.

it then goes on to say:

This revelatory letter does significantly undermine the notion put forward by the opposition - that is, the former government - that everyone had access to the OBR forecasts, therefore the “books were open”.

But this should not have come as a surprise. The OBR warned last year that the errors in its borrowing forecasts were largely down to underestimates in government spending. The OBR said that it was legally obliged to accept the figures it was given.

i'm only the messenger, no opinion expressed

So, its half a dozen of one and six of the other

[sionascaig]

This revelatory letter does significantly undermine the notion put forward by the opposition - that is, the former government - that everyone had access to the OBR forecasts, therefore the “books were open”.

But this should not have come as a surprise. The OBR warned last year that the errors in its borrowing forecasts were largely down to underestimates in government spending. The OBR said that it was legally obliged to accept the figures it was given.

I score it 1-0 labour... And points to be deducted from Cons due to financial irregularities. Possibly even relegation into a lower league.