In running market question
I know there has been in running bet on betfair since the year dot but how long ago was it that the amount of money that gets traded rose greatly. I do understand that there are a group of punters who bet from the track and we also have people with varying speed of pics. I'm just looking into some stuff and wonder from what date the market has been in its current state?
Back in 04/05 the market was pretty boyant the first time I looked at it. It's accounted for about 20% of total matched bets in recent years but I didn't do that calculation way back then so its difficult to suggest if it has grown significantly or not.
For Betfair as a whole it grow slowly for a while but exploded when people started trading the markets and adding liquidity. That drew in larger bettors and an virtuous cycle started from that point.
For Betfair as a whole it grow slowly for a while but exploded when people started trading the markets and adding liquidity. That drew in larger bettors and an virtuous cycle started from that point.
Euler i understand that the market is constantly evolving would you like to venture an opinion whether you feel that we are in a range where the liquidity is unlike to go up (unless there is a change in say people at home getting faster pics) and is more like to go down because the people either at the track or with faster pics are disposing of new players much quicker than was previously the case and with the current economic climate is the pond is getting smaller?
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JollyGreen
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Hi
I tried the on track game many years ago. Euler and I tried it between us and trust me it is bloody hard work. It can definitely be done but these days you really need to be at the track in a box with a laptop, a closed circuit TV feed, wifi and nerves of steel. Some people also do it by positioning themselves close to the finish and the run in.
I have a good friend who does this full time. He can make a fortune in a short space of time but it is not without large losses when something out of the ordinary occurs.
For what's it worth I think the liquidity will decline and I know my mate says he feels the money has dropped. I could be wrong and someone may have actual figures for the in running markets now compared to 12 months ago.
Back then there was a big pie and just a few people trying to grab a slice. Now there are hundreds of them but the pie is smaller so your potential share has dropped and you are probably competing with the guy sat next to you at the track. I once won £800 on a race and the guy sat next to me lost £800 on the same horse
One of the rules is do not whoop with joy if you win as it could be your neighbour's money!
People soon get fed up losing money so they stop. With the new PC from Betfair my mate says that a lot of people have stopped on course trading. They have expenses like fuel, entrance, box fee, wi-fi etc so giving 60% to Betfair doesn't appeal. My mate reckons it costs him around £300 per day to attend a course and that does not include buying his laptop or other items. At 60% PC he almost has to make £1000 profit to just break even.
So I think the money will drop off as people will soon get hacked off with it. It seems that Betfair and their new PC will kill off most on course players and natural erosion through losses will do for the rest.
I tried the on track game many years ago. Euler and I tried it between us and trust me it is bloody hard work. It can definitely be done but these days you really need to be at the track in a box with a laptop, a closed circuit TV feed, wifi and nerves of steel. Some people also do it by positioning themselves close to the finish and the run in.
I have a good friend who does this full time. He can make a fortune in a short space of time but it is not without large losses when something out of the ordinary occurs.
For what's it worth I think the liquidity will decline and I know my mate says he feels the money has dropped. I could be wrong and someone may have actual figures for the in running markets now compared to 12 months ago.
Back then there was a big pie and just a few people trying to grab a slice. Now there are hundreds of them but the pie is smaller so your potential share has dropped and you are probably competing with the guy sat next to you at the track. I once won £800 on a race and the guy sat next to me lost £800 on the same horse
One of the rules is do not whoop with joy if you win as it could be your neighbour's money!People soon get fed up losing money so they stop. With the new PC from Betfair my mate says that a lot of people have stopped on course trading. They have expenses like fuel, entrance, box fee, wi-fi etc so giving 60% to Betfair doesn't appeal. My mate reckons it costs him around £300 per day to attend a course and that does not include buying his laptop or other items. At 60% PC he almost has to make £1000 profit to just break even.
So I think the money will drop off as people will soon get hacked off with it. It seems that Betfair and their new PC will kill off most on course players and natural erosion through losses will do for the rest.
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andyfuller
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One thing to think about though is as people drop out the pie will get smaller but with less people trying to get a slice perhaps the slices will become bigger and worth it for a select few who are good at it.JollyGreen wrote:So I think the money will drop off as people will soon get hacked off with it. It seems that Betfair and their new PC will kill off most on course players and natural erosion through losses will do for the rest.
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JollyGreen
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Yes but the people who are good at it are not happy with giving 60% of their cash to Betfair. Sadly, as you say, it is an ecosystem and if parts disappear then it becomes unstable.
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andyfuller
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I agree they may not be happy but for some people even at 60% it could still be well worth their while. For example if they are not able to earn anywhere near the amount they can oncourse in a regular job or else where.
I agree the ecosystem is becoming unstable, Betfair are trying to reinforce the foundations but there are some areas they are likely to be unable to and inrunning is probably one of them. It will be interesting to see what happens when the sports book is released in the coming months, can't be long now?
I agree the ecosystem is becoming unstable, Betfair are trying to reinforce the foundations but there are some areas they are likely to be unable to and inrunning is probably one of them. It will be interesting to see what happens when the sports book is released in the coming months, can't be long now?
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CaerMyrddin
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Hi Andy, what sportsbook are you talking about?
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andyfuller
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The one that Betfair are launching in the coming months, not sure when it is being launched but I thought they said autumn.
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CaerMyrddin
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Hmmmm, that's interesting. And worrying too. They will basically move away more money from the exchange.
Would you mind to post your source to understand in deeper detail what we'll be facing?
Would you mind to post your source to understand in deeper detail what we'll be facing?
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andyfuller
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If you have a look through their corporate stuff you will find it in there somewhere.
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andyfuller
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Oct. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Betfair Group Plc, the world’s biggest person-to-person online betting exchange, could increase profit by more than 50 percent with a new fixed-odds sports betting plan, according to Numis Securities.
In April, Betfair is planning to offer fixed-odds betting alongside its exchange bets to increase choice, a step that could help increase its dominance in commercial sports betting, analyst Ivor Jones said in a note to investors.
The new system could let Betfair tap into the advantages offered by fixed-odds betting, such as greater selection, earlier bets and more multiple wagers, Jones said. Betfair’s betting exchanges allow customers to bet against each other, rather than against the house, as at traditional bookmakers such as William Hill Plc and Ladbrokes Plc.
“If Betfair came to dominate fixed odds sports betting, in the same way it currently dominates overall sports betting, then it has the potential to more than double group profits,” Jones wrote, adding that the calculations are “highly speculative.’ He has a “buy” recommendation on Betfair.
In June, Betfair said it’s developing an “integrated” sports betting product that will allow it to offer more bets during games and other wagers.
Editors: Peter Branton, Chris Peterson
To contact the reporter on this story: David Altaner in London at [email protected]
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Colin Keatinge at [email protected]
In April, Betfair is planning to offer fixed-odds betting alongside its exchange bets to increase choice, a step that could help increase its dominance in commercial sports betting, analyst Ivor Jones said in a note to investors.
The new system could let Betfair tap into the advantages offered by fixed-odds betting, such as greater selection, earlier bets and more multiple wagers, Jones said. Betfair’s betting exchanges allow customers to bet against each other, rather than against the house, as at traditional bookmakers such as William Hill Plc and Ladbrokes Plc.
“If Betfair came to dominate fixed odds sports betting, in the same way it currently dominates overall sports betting, then it has the potential to more than double group profits,” Jones wrote, adding that the calculations are “highly speculative.’ He has a “buy” recommendation on Betfair.
In June, Betfair said it’s developing an “integrated” sports betting product that will allow it to offer more bets during games and other wagers.
Editors: Peter Branton, Chris Peterson
To contact the reporter on this story: David Altaner in London at [email protected]
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Colin Keatinge at [email protected]
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CaerMyrddin
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I always thought betfair should look more like a bookie, but not be one. For the casual player they should have a 'back at the best price available' so that the graphic interface would be simpler. Being a bookie will drive money away from the exchange, are you guys worried?