Excuses, Excuses, Excuses

[ForFolksSake]

There are international naval rules, which the Royal Navy created and have always adhered too for non combatants at sea in distress. Australia did break with these norms when firing over migrants trying to enter Australian waters but there was uproar at home and internationally.

Besides if the UK did that, then France would do that and the migrants would be left stuck in the middle, run out of fuel and probably taking on water if overloaded.

I don’t know about the French but the Royal Navy would not allow them to drown etc.

And before anyone says it that is a different situation to the Royal Navy sinking the Argentinian naval flagship in 1982 as it was a combatant warship, even though it was sailing away and posed no danger.

Thanks. I did think it seemed too simple a solution

I’m 99% sure a Captain/Commander of a Royal Naval ship or submarine has international legal discretion when it comes to helping non combatants at sea. In theory the PM/Queen/King could give an order not to help but in practice they never would. Whoever was in charge of the ship would never face a court martial or reprimanded for saving lives at sea, even by disobeying a direct order not too etc.

It's quite obvious the Government of the day for the past 20+ years has had no intention of trying to stop the immigrant boats coming across the English Channel.

If they had all they would have had to do was pull the bridge up by stopping putting them in hotels and stopping paying them benefits - just like they stopped paying the pensioners their winter fuel allowance.

What a F*kn liberty..

[Archery1969]

Thanks. I did think it seemed too simple a solution

I’m 99% sure a Captain/Commander of a Royal Naval ship or submarine has international legal discretion when it comes to helping non combatants at sea. In theory the PM/Queen/King could give an order not to help but in practice they never would. Whoever was in charge of the ship would never face a court martial or reprimanded for saving lives at sea, even by disobeying a direct order not too etc.

It's quite obvious the Government of the day for the past 20+ years has had no intention of trying to stop the immigrant boats coming across the English Channel.

If they had all they would have had to do was pull the bridge up by stopping putting them in hotels and stopping paying them benefits - just like they stopped paying the pensioners their winter fuel allowance.

What a F*kn liberty..

Not exactly that easy.

If you stop paying them benefits plus, then they would hang about on street corners and probably causing trouble has happened in Hastings. Then what do you do, lock them up at £38,000 each, for how long and then again, what do you do with them ?

Announced tonight on BBC, only 340 prison places left. What a shit show but the current PM wants to give inflation busting pay rises to public sector workers. Sir Kier has his cock up Mick Lynch, while Reeves and Raynar are each sucking his nuts.

Come the Autumn, those over 50 will be causing the current government mega grief for years to come etc.

[Archery1969]

wow, Labour really are now showing their true colours....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2nz4zlgr4o

[sniffer66]

wow, Labour really are now showing their true colours....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2nz4zlgr4o

Not sure why that would be a surprise. I assume you know why and when the Labour Party was formed, and who Keir Starmer is named after ?

They are only conforming to their raison d'etre. In the same way the Tories spent hundreds of years returning wealthy landowners to Parliament to protect their interests and keep the poor in their place, and under a tight rein. Nothing really changes

[Derek27]

Labour should do a Martingale, 100% pay rise for all public sector workers every 1st of January.

[Archery1969]

Labour should do a Martingale, 100% pay rise for all public sector workers every 1st of January.

[Archery1969]

Energy prices to rise by 9% in October and Labour have taken away the winter fuel allowance for millions....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy54r9r1355o

[Derek27]

Energy prices to rise by 9% in October and Labour have taken away the winter fuel allowance for millions....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy54r9r1355o

What is the big deal about the winter fuel allowance?

Unless I'm missing something, it's just being means-tested. Many well-off people who received it admit that they shouldn't be entitled.

[sniffer66]

Energy prices to rise by 9% in October and Labour have taken away the winter fuel allowance for millions....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy54r9r1355o

What is the big deal about the winter fuel allowance?

Unless I'm missing something, it's just being means-tested. Many well-off people who received it admit that they shouldn't be entitled.

Funnily enough, I was thinking about this earlier. My parents got it, but are pretty well off and don't need it. I keep seeing quotes about taking it away for ALL pensioners, but if it's means tested then the people who need and deserve it still get it. Why give it to those who can afford it ?

[jimibt]

Energy prices to rise by 9% in October and Labour have taken away the winter fuel allowance for millions....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy54r9r1355o

What is the big deal about the winter fuel allowance?

Unless I'm missing something, it's just being means-tested. Many well-off people who received it admit that they shouldn't be entitled.

Funnily enough, I was thinking about this earlier. My parents got it, but are pretty well off and don't need it. I keep seeing quotes about taking it away for ALL pensioners, but if it's means tested then the people who need and deserve it still get it. Why give it to those who can afford it ?

+1, this has been my point too in earlier (heated ) exchanges with the far-right contingent!!

[Euler]

wow, Labour really are now showing their true colours....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2nz4zlgr4o

Welcome to the 1970's. Once the unions realise they have the power to shape policy, they will go for it causing as much disruption as possible until the government concedes.

[Euler]

Energy prices to rise by 9% in October and Labour have taken away the winter fuel allowance for millions....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy54r9r1355o

What is the big deal about the winter fuel allowance?

Unless I'm missing something, it's just being means-tested. Many well-off people who received it admit that they shouldn't be entitled.

Keir Stamer had a right old rant at the policy when the Conservatives looked at it and promised he wouldn't do the same if in power.

[Archery1969]

Energy prices to rise by 9% in October and Labour have taken away the winter fuel allowance for millions....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy54r9r1355o

What is the big deal about the winter fuel allowance?

Unless I'm missing something, it's just being means-tested. Many well-off people who received it admit that they shouldn't be entitled.

Correct but they reduced the number of qualifying means tested benefits they will accept meaning around 4.2 million who are not classed as wealthy sitting just above the threshold will drop through the hole.

[sniffer66]

Energy prices to rise by 9% in October and Labour have taken away the winter fuel allowance for millions....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy54r9r1355o

What is the big deal about the winter fuel allowance?

Unless I'm missing something, it's just being means-tested. Many well-off people who received it admit that they shouldn't be entitled.

Correct but they reduced the number of qualifying means tested benefits they will accept meaning around 4.2 million who are not classed as wealthy sitting just above the threshold will drop through the hole.

So, the question is, how many of those 4.2 million will that leave in fuel poverty ? Is that going to be a guess or is it quantifiable ?

[Archery1969]

What is the big deal about the winter fuel allowance?

Unless I'm missing something, it's just being means-tested. Many well-off people who received it admit that they shouldn't be entitled.

Correct but they reduced the number of qualifying means tested benefits they will accept meaning around 4.2 million who are not classed as wealthy sitting just above the threshold will drop through the hole.

So, the question is, how many of those 4.2 million will that leave in fuel poverty ? Is that going to be a guess or is it quantifiable ?

From Age UK website:

The Charity says that means-testing the WFP this winter, with virtually no notice and no compensatory measures to protect the poor and vulnerable pensioners who will miss out, is the wrong policy decision and will lead to hardship and distress.

That’s principally because this winter, Age UK estimates around 2 million struggling pensioners won’t receive up to £300 they rely on to help pay their energy bills as a result of means-testing Winter Fuel Payment.