BITCOIN as an alternative to regular currency

[Euler]

yeah, but, while derivatives do not require holding the underlying asset, their value is closely tied to the performance and perception of the asset in the broader market. in short, there would still be an alignment in price between bitcoin derivatives and the bitcoin market.

In theory.

The problem with BTC is that's it's not tied to anything, it's impossible to work out it's true value.

i don't disagree and many wiser than me have tried and failed, however, while bitcoin's value may not be tied to physical assets, its unique properties, growing adoption, and technological foundation provide a basis for its valuation. i think the market's recognition of these factors contributes to its perceived and actual value. and as noted earlier, the fact that it can be used outside the confines of the market to buy/sell goods does extend its utility. that said, could buy a pint of milk and loaf of bread for the equivalent of £3 in the morning and find that in reality, it ended up *costing* £4 by end of the day!!

More like £4k

Words are being used to justify valuation rather than a concrete use or yield. So I think that confines it to a purely speculative play.

That's OK, but as long as you understand the risks.

It relies on the greater fool theory, as does any speculation.

[ruthlessimon]

Saylor's recent interview on Valuetainment is worth watching

The dead air when asked about Satoshi's identity was mad. Why is that question off limits?

https://youtu.be/rT7Dvh3QV1A?si=DHMCo4FVwmJ6rLUe&t=222

IMO, if the U.S. economy wobbles, bitcoin's down 50%, with MSTR potentially down 90%

That said momentum is in full swing here, now is not the time to be short.

[ruthlessimon]

MicroStrategy's "intelligent leverage" explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5LKZ1-6BWM
https://youtu.be/Vh8Jkpe9zHw?si=4JV2jwzuhmTxJM3R

[SpikeyBob]

Jumping before he gets pushed?

[Big Bad Barney]

Physical vs. Digital: Gold's scarcity is tied to its physical presence and the challenges of extraction. Bitcoin's scarcity is a result of its digital design and the rules set by its protocol.
Market Impact: Both assets' scarcity contributes to their value. However, Bitcoin's fixed supply and predictable issuance schedule can make it more appealing to those who value certainty in scarcity.

Why can't I use Ethereum or Doge coin or whatever instead of Bitcoin? I.e. what does it matter if the number of bitcoins are scarce if 100 or any number of other 'scarce' things do the same thing? or is bitcoin different in some way that makes the others unusable for the same purpose?

I.e. Their utility is not unique, so what makes bitcoin scarce?

Same with gold.... apart from its utility as an industrial metal, it has a portion of speculative value and also the value that 'the government said so'..... one could just as easily use any metal to peg paper dollar value? Yes?

Consider also, say that musk dude heads off into space and brings back an asteroid of pure gold. Your bread will probably have costed you 4grand tomorrow too...it's just statistically unlikely to happen... and that's the game isn't it

[weemac]

Physical vs. Digital: Gold's scarcity is tied to its physical presence and the challenges of extraction. Bitcoin's scarcity is a result of its digital design and the rules set by its protocol.
Market Impact: Both assets' scarcity contributes to their value. However, Bitcoin's fixed supply and predictable issuance schedule can make it more appealing to those who value certainty in scarcity.

Why can't I use Ethereum or Doge coin or whatever instead of Bitcoin? I.e. what does it matter if the number of bitcoins are scarce if 100 or any number of other 'scarce' things do the same thing? or is bitcoin different in some way that makes the others unusable for the same purpose?

I.e. Their utility is not unique, so what makes bitcoin scarce?

Same with gold.... apart from its utility as an industrial metal, it has a portion of speculative value and also the value that 'the government said so'..... one could just as easily use any metal to peg paper dollar value? Yes?

Consider also, say that musk dude heads off into space and brings back an asteroid of pure gold. Your bread will probably have costed you 4grand tomorrow too...it's just statistically unlikely to happen... and that's the game isn't it

I think it's scarce partly because only a set number can exist - not sure how many but it's limited.

People spend $1,000 on an iphone, but they don't have to; they could buy a Chinese phone that does the same stuff for a tenth of that. They pay subs and fees to Microsoft for Word and Excel but could do much of the same stuff for nothing. Similar idea with Aston Martin - just a moving box on 4 wheels, but people pay big bucks to own a big brand name product.

So what other coins don't have but bitcoin does is brand identity. Corporations pay billions for that, so along with limited supply, its value is a masterstroke of genius, albeit most likely originally unintentional. Like Apple, Visa or Amazon, a huge part of its value lies in its brand.

[Big Bad Barney]

I think it's scarce partly because only a set number can exist - not sure how many but it's limited.

People spend $1,000 on an iphone, but they don't have to; they could buy a Chinese phone that does the same stuff for a tenth of that. They pay subs and fees to Microsoft for Word and Excel but could do much of the same stuff for nothing. Similar idea with Aston Martin - just a moving box on 4 wheels, but people pay big bucks to own a big brand name product.

So what other coins don't have but bitcoin does is brand identity. Corporations pay billions for that, so along with limited supply, its value is a masterstroke of genius, albeit most likely originally unintentional. Like Apple, Visa or Amazon, a huge part of its value lies in its brand.

To me 'Currency' or 'Store of value' is a utility.
Where as Iphones, Aston Martins or the other products you mention have a utility component, but also a value attributed to fashion, comfort, efficiency, status symbol, etc...

If the premise that crypto is 100% utility, they are not scarce as 1000's of them provide the same utility. (as does traditional banking facilities etc). Which ever performs it function best is what typically gets chosen....for example, you don't see too many people turning down $100 notes when 2x$50 notes can achieve the same thing. (speaking generally )

Is that premise wrong, and Is bitcoin really a fashion statement? Maybe...but I think it's fairly widely agreed that bitcoin is useless as a currency. More widely contested that it's a useful store of value.... like really...are you going to pay more so you can tell your buddies you've got bitcoin rather than blahcoin for the purposes of a hedge against civilisation ending? Surely, they'd laugh at you on two fronts?

The value of Fashion probably relies on the greater fool principle as well (or is it the greater fool theory).

[jimibt]

$100k - and the world DIDN'T blow up

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqj0wkwv1x2o

[Dallas]

$100k - and the world DIDN'T blow up

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqj0wkwv1x2o

Still holding mine until it reaches a million in a few years

[Euler]

Bitcoin went as low as $3.55 this morning.

[Kai]

Bitcoin went as low as $3.55 this morning.

Loled

[Michael5482]

Imagine logging into an account to see you have 600 million of Bitcoin in it and can't access it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c77jx4d5748o

[ForFolksSake]

Imagine logging into an account to see you have 600 million of Bitcoin in it and can't access it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c77jx4d5748o

Best of luck with finding that - needle in a haystack

[ForFolksSake]

Bitcoin's "only legitimate use" is for criminal enterprises...

Cryptocurrency is primarily used "for bribes, scams on the internet" and by cartels...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWQfsx9Fj3A

[Euler]

Current AML standards are stifling but completely pointless when Bitcoin exists. It's a farce.