Excuses, Excuses, Excuses

[greenmark]

Thw whole premise of this thread is flawed.

Can't tell you the number of times I cut the Tory/Lib Dems slack.

They betrayed that tolerance.

You cannot ignore 14 years of power, including dictating to councils what they can spend and under resourcing the NHS and military.
Forget Brexit , internal tory squabbling. Forget Covid, unavoidable stress on any govt..
5 months doesn't correct the decade of incompetence.. The Tories are as guilty as a puppy next to a pile of poo. Only an idiot would suggest they did a good job.

The Tory's were a disgrace no question but they're no longer in power, Labour are. They've voted to keep policy's they spent 14 years arguing against (keeping the 2 child benefit cap being the stand out one), removed the winter fuel allowance which today Starmer has said "makes sense" while opening 14 new asylum seeker hotels for illegal immigrants who'll be tucked up nicely for Xmas while British people freeze and starve. These are choices Labour have made no one else and they need to be accountable.

Today we find out Labour are sending over 500 million to farmers abroad in banana republics while attacking British farmers for around the same amount of money.

I'm coming to the conclusion Labour hate British people they are imposing austerity 2.0 on British people.

Starmer did a round robin with local radio stations and wow what an agressive reception he recieved (and dealt with ok, not great but ok).
But I don't remember this level of hositility to Cameron, Clegg, BJ, May, Truss, sunak. And they deserved to be held to account, but it seems the right wing media affords idiots leeway and a decent man absolutely none because he's a lefty. Starmer? A lefty!!!

[Michael5482]

Thw whole premise of this thread is flawed.

Can't tell you the number of times I cut the Tory/Lib Dems slack.

They betrayed that tolerance.

You cannot ignore 14 years of power, including dictating to councils what they can spend and under resourcing the NHS and military.
Forget Brexit , internal tory squabbling. Forget Covid, unavoidable stress on any govt..
5 months doesn't correct the decade of incompetence.. The Tories are as guilty as a puppy next to a pile of poo. Only an idiot would suggest they did a good job.

The Tory's were a disgrace no question but they're no longer in power, Labour are. They've voted to keep policy's they spent 14 years arguing against (keeping the 2 child benefit cap being the stand out one), removed the winter fuel allowance which today Starmer has said "makes sense" while opening 14 new asylum seeker hotels for illegal immigrants who'll be tucked up nicely for Xmas while British people freeze and starve. These are choices Labour have made no one else and they need to be accountable.

Today we find out Labour are sending over 500 million to farmers abroad in banana republics while attacking British farmers for around the same amount of money.

I'm coming to the conclusion Labour hate British people they are imposing austerity 2.0 on British people.

Starmer did a round robin with local radio stations and wow what an agressive reception he recieved (and dealt with ok, not great but ok).
But I don't remember this level of hositility to Cameron, Clegg, BJ, May, Truss, sunak. And they deserved to be held to account, but it seems the right wing media affords idiots leeway and a decent man absolutely none because he's a lefty. Starmer? A lefty!!!

Cameron/Clegg were possibly pre-social media boom in relation to political debate, BJ, May and especially Truss have been rightly pillared in fact I'd welcome a criminal investigation against Johnson and his cronies in relation to Covid. Truss has been hammered and still get's hammered and will do the rest of her life and rightly so, Sunak was just a stop gap everyone knew the Tory's were done by him so no one really cared about him or anything he did or didn't do.

I don't care if Starmer is left or right he's launching an astonishing attack on British people especially those already in poverty. We were told "those with the broadest shoulders would pay", a pensioner on £221 a week or a British farmer working 7 days a week scraping a living don't exactly have the broadest shoulders do they?

Politicians are so out of touch its unreal, Starmer is widening the gap further, the mans a complete f@ckwit. We need political reform but Labour have dreams of grandeur thinking they are up to the job and come out with b@ollocks like "diversity is our strength" that puts food on the table and heats homes doesn't it. One thing they have in common Tory or Labour they're both deluded.

[firlandsfarm]

The Met are to shed 2,000 police officers … wait a minute didn’t Labour regularly criticise the Conservatives for reducing police numbers!

[conduirez]

The Met are to shed 2,000 police officers … wait a minute didn’t Labour regularly criticise the Conservatives for reducing police numbers!

Is that true firlandsfarm, l thought Labour were only complaining about reductions in the number police officers who were investigating NCHI's

[greenmark]

The Tory's were a disgrace no question but they're no longer in power, Labour are. They've voted to keep policy's they spent 14 years arguing against (keeping the 2 child benefit cap being the stand out one), removed the winter fuel allowance which today Starmer has said "makes sense" while opening 14 new asylum seeker hotels for illegal immigrants who'll be tucked up nicely for Xmas while British people freeze and starve. These are choices Labour have made no one else and they need to be accountable.

Today we find out Labour are sending over 500 million to farmers abroad in banana republics while attacking British farmers for around the same amount of money.

I'm coming to the conclusion Labour hate British people they are imposing austerity 2.0 on British people.

Starmer did a round robin with local radio stations and wow what an agressive reception he recieved (and dealt with ok, not great but ok).
But I don't remember this level of hositility to Cameron, Clegg, BJ, May, Truss, sunak. And they deserved to be held to account, but it seems the right wing media affords idiots leeway and a decent man absolutely none because he's a lefty. Starmer? A lefty!!!

Cameron/Clegg were possibly pre-social media boom in relation to political debate, BJ, May and especially Truss have been rightly pillared in fact I'd welcome a criminal investigation against Johnson and his cronies in relation to Covid. Truss has been hammered and still get's hammered and will do the rest of her life and rightly so, Sunak was just a stop gap everyone knew the Tory's were done by him so no one really cared about him or anything he did or didn't do.

I don't care if Starmer is left or right he's launching an astonishing attack on British people especially those already in poverty. We were told "those with the broadest shoulders would pay", a pensioner on £221 a week or a British farmer working 7 days a week scraping a living don't exactly have the broadest shoulders do they?

Politicians are so out of touch its unreal, Starmer is widening the gap further, the mans a complete f@ckwit. We need political reform but Labour have dreams of grandeur thinking they are up to the job and come out with b@ollocks like "diversity is our strength" that puts food on the table and heats homes doesn't it. One thing they have in common Tory or Labour they're both deluded.

I undersand your frustration. But we have just had a democratic vote, the people voted. Labour won by a country mile.
Nontheless, I think it's fair to criticise every single thing they do that you disagree with.
But you still come back to the dead silence when the Tories started their reign of incompetence and corruption and nepotism. I'm just asking for Labour to be given a similar latitude, but it's clear the right wing media are going to Fubar labour at all costs.

[Archery1969]

Starmer did a round robin with local radio stations and wow what an agressive reception he recieved (and dealt with ok, not great but ok).
But I don't remember this level of hositility to Cameron, Clegg, BJ, May, Truss, sunak. And they deserved to be held to account, but it seems the right wing media affords idiots leeway and a decent man absolutely none because he's a lefty. Starmer? A lefty!!!

Cameron/Clegg were possibly pre-social media boom in relation to political debate, BJ, May and especially Truss have been rightly pillared in fact I'd welcome a criminal investigation against Johnson and his cronies in relation to Covid. Truss has been hammered and still get's hammered and will do the rest of her life and rightly so, Sunak was just a stop gap everyone knew the Tory's were done by him so no one really cared about him or anything he did or didn't do.

I don't care if Starmer is left or right he's launching an astonishing attack on British people especially those already in poverty. We were told "those with the broadest shoulders would pay", a pensioner on £221 a week or a British farmer working 7 days a week scraping a living don't exactly have the broadest shoulders do they?

Politicians are so out of touch its unreal, Starmer is widening the gap further, the mans a complete f@ckwit. We need political reform but Labour have dreams of grandeur thinking they are up to the job and come out with b@ollocks like "diversity is our strength" that puts food on the table and heats homes doesn't it. One thing they have in common Tory or Labour they're both deluded.

I undersand your frustration. But we have just had a democratic vote, the people voted. Labour won by a country mile.
Nontheless, I think it's fair to criticise every single thing they do that you disagree with.
But you still come back to the dead silence when the Tories started their reign of incompetence and corruption and nepotism. I'm just asking for Labour to be given a similar latitude, but it's clear the right wing media are going to Fubar labour at all costs.

Only 38% voted for Labour. That’s hardly conclusive. You need PR.

[firlandsfarm]

right wing media are going to Fubar labour at all costs.

Yeah and why not, all media did it to the Conservatives!

[sionascaig]

Yeah and why not, all media did it to the Conservatives!

Rather than whinging at every single article it is maybe more effective & convincing if you focus on the big ticket items, in particular when the current incumbents exceed conservative excesses, e.g.

- Stammer has just illegally suspended parliament for even longer than Johnson
- Stammer has been caught lying to parliament more times than Johnson
- Stammer has sacked his ethics advisor more times than Johnson
- Stammer has tried to undermine the parliamentary investigation into his own behaviour
- Stammer has tried to corrupt the investigation into his pals behaviour
- Stammer has just appointed a pal that gave him £600k for wallpaper to cushy job
- Stammer has just resigned in a hissy fit when investigation confirms he is a lying toad
- Stammer fined by police for breaking laws he put in place
- Arrange your own birthday party in the middle of pandemic with over 50,000 already dead
- Write a poem implying the Turkish president had sex with goats
- Steal more than £12.000 worth of towels and bathing robes from grace & favour mansion ((that one was Truss)
- Refuse to meet with other heads of government as they might make you look stupid
- Don't attend COBRA meetings because you have a book deadline to meet...

Jings... Its is easy to forget just how bad some of these eegits were/ are.

PS That is not a left v right point and I fully accept there are gross incompetents on both sides but long way to go before the scales balance out....

[greenmark]

Cameron/Clegg were possibly pre-social media boom in relation to political debate, BJ, May and especially Truss have been rightly pillared in fact I'd welcome a criminal investigation against Johnson and his cronies in relation to Covid. Truss has been hammered and still get's hammered and will do the rest of her life and rightly so, Sunak was just a stop gap everyone knew the Tory's were done by him so no one really cared about him or anything he did or didn't do.

I don't care if Starmer is left or right he's launching an astonishing attack on British people especially those already in poverty. We were told "those with the broadest shoulders would pay", a pensioner on £221 a week or a British farmer working 7 days a week scraping a living don't exactly have the broadest shoulders do they?

Politicians are so out of touch its unreal, Starmer is widening the gap further, the mans a complete f@ckwit. We need political reform but Labour have dreams of grandeur thinking they are up to the job and come out with b@ollocks like "diversity is our strength" that puts food on the table and heats homes doesn't it. One thing they have in common Tory or Labour they're both deluded.

I undersand your frustration. But we have just had a democratic vote, the people voted. Labour won by a country mile.
Nontheless, I think it's fair to criticise every single thing they do that you disagree with.
But you still come back to the dead silence when the Tories started their reign of incompetence and corruption and nepotism. I'm just asking for Labour to be given a similar latitude, but it's clear the right wing media are going to Fubar labour at all costs.

Only 38% voted for Labour. That’s hardly conclusive. You need PR.

PR keeps popping up as the solution to the failure of our two party system (sometimes moderated by a narrow majority and fringe parties have enormous influence as the govt c**ps itself over every contentious issue).
But Labour are immovable for 5 years.
I'm not convinced that PR is any better. PR is dominant in Europe so maybe I'm wrong. They are doing better than us. Hmmm!

[ForFolksSake]

I undersand your frustration. But we have just had a democratic vote, the people voted. Labour won by a country mile.
Nontheless, I think it's fair to criticise every single thing they do that you disagree with.
But you still come back to the dead silence when the Tories started their reign of incompetence and corruption and nepotism. I'm just asking for Labour to be given a similar latitude, but it's clear the right wing media are going to Fubar labour at all costs.

Only 38% voted for Labour. That’s hardly conclusive. You need PR.

PR keeps popping up as the solution to the failure of our two party system (sometimes moderated by a narrow majority and fringe parties have enormous influence as the govt c**ps itself over every contentious issue).
But Labour are immovable for 5 years.
I'm not convinced that PR is any better. PR is dominant in Europe so maybe I'm wrong. They are doing better than us. Hmmm!

Of the 43 countries in Europe, 40 use some form of proportional representation.
All EEA countries, except Denmark, issue identity cards.

The UK is an outlier because none of our political parties have the bollocks to introduce ID cards

[greenmark]

Only 38% voted for Labour. That’s hardly conclusive. You need PR.

PR keeps popping up as the solution to the failure of our two party system (sometimes moderated by a narrow majority and fringe parties have enormous influence as the govt c**ps itself over every contentious issue).
But Labour are immovable for 5 years.
I'm not convinced that PR is any better. PR is dominant in Europe so maybe I'm wrong. They are doing better than us. Hmmm!

Of the 43 countries in Europe, 40 use some form of proportional representation.
All EEA countries, except Denmark, issue identity cards.

The UK is an outlier because none of our political parties have the bollocks to introduce ID cards

Indeed so. ID cards seem to be the devil's work for most Brits.
I'm not sure about ID cards. If you accept them as a definitive reference of identity you are at the mercy of the forgers.
I prefer the analogue version of identity. Who are you? What can you do? Does my personal radar say you're ok or a bit wonky.
As always I remain to be persuaded by a powerful argument.

[ForFolksSake]

PR keeps popping up as the solution to the failure of our two party system (sometimes moderated by a narrow majority and fringe parties have enormous influence as the govt c**ps itself over every contentious issue).
But Labour are immovable for 5 years.
I'm not convinced that PR is any better. PR is dominant in Europe so maybe I'm wrong. They are doing better than us. Hmmm!

Of the 43 countries in Europe, 40 use some form of proportional representation.
All EEA countries, except Denmark, issue identity cards.

The UK is an outlier because none of our political parties have the bollocks to introduce ID cards

Indeed so. ID cards seem to be the devil's work for most Brits.
I'm not sure about ID cards. If you accept them as a definitive reference of identity you are at the mercy of the forgers.
I prefer the analogue version of identity. Who are you? What can you do? Does my personal radar say you're ok or a bit wonky.
As always I remain to be persuaded by a powerful argument.

It's a 'NO BRAINER' ....how about that for a powerful argument
+ the reasons you've given below

I prefer the analogue version of identity. Who are you? What can you do? Does my personal radar say you're ok or a bit wonky.

[Euler]

You wouldn't need PR if the election process worked correctly.

I.e. you vote for a local MP that represents your view in Parliament. Also you need to get over the protest vote type stuff that goes on.

We elected a complete nobody with no experience in anything at all locally. Clearly people just voted NOT Conservative and elected somebody that has no experience, power and represents nothing.

If people elected a local MP on the right terms and they had a free vote in Parliament, you may get a better mixture of MPs and better quality ones.

Ultimately we just granted somebody a £500k five year contract with no interview, no experience and the ability to achieve nothing. That's a fail for me!

[sionascaig]

You wouldn't need PR if the election process worked correctly.

England is the only nation that doesn't have it!

[greenmark]

You wouldn't need PR if the election process worked correctly.

I.e. you vote for a local MP that represents your view in Parliament. Also you need to get over the protest vote type stuff that goes on.

We elected a complete nobody with no experience in anything at all locally. Clearly people just voted NOT Conservative and elected somebody that has no experience, power and represents nothing.

If people elected a local MP on the right terms and they had a free vote in Parliament, you may get a better mixture of MPs and better quality ones.

Ultimately we just granted somebody a £500k five year contract with no interview, no experience and the ability to achieve nothing. That's a fail for me!

We have elected halfwits for a while now. At least Starmer has some credence as an ex barrister and ex DPP.
He knows where the law sits.
But I agree. We should be pestering our MP's to do what we want. Punching or assaulting is clearly anti-democratic. Asking your MP to explain their vote in Parliament is entirely reasonable.