Betfair have scrapped the Premium Charge

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jamesedwards
Posts: 3455
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Euler wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2025 6:13 pm
Mine shows any buffer and what the rate will be next week on the right of the page.
But how does it know next week's rate until the current week is completed?

eg I might be on £90k last 52-wk gross and the "next week" rate shows 20%. But then I win £20k in the current week which means next week's rate should show 40%?

Edit - Or is that the point, perhaps it is a live variable based on your wks -1 to -51 plus your profit so far this week? If so then it would be so much better to show the actual profit value.
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Euler
Posts: 25719
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Reading mine it says, this is what you did last week and therefore this is what you will be charged next week.

The dates applicable on the statement if that helps you understand it better.
tomallen123
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:52 pm

jamesedwards wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2025 6:33 pm
Euler wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2025 6:13 pm
Mine shows any buffer and what the rate will be next week on the right of the page.
But how does it know next week's rate until the current week is completed?

eg I might be on £90k last 52-wk gross and the "next week" rate shows 20%. But then I win £20k in the current week which means next week's rate should show 40%?

Edit - Or is that the point, perhaps it is a live variable based on your wks -1 to -51 plus your profit so far this week? If so then it would be so much better to show the actual profit value.
The "next week" is 13th Jan - 19th Jan, starting today.
In your example with the 20k win, if that took you over the 52 week win of 100k then the following week of 20-26th of Jan would be at 40%.
Driftspite
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:13 pm

Can someone help me out with this:
Capture.PNG
(not sure if the image will work, but.

I have been having a poor run recently and have some buffer (last weeks buff) which was £3,164.23 item [c]. I made gross £1,770.06 [a], and paid implied 'Commission Generated' of £435.51. I am at 40% charge level.

So 40% of gross is 0.4*£1,770.06 = £708.024.

I need to cover £708.02. - £435.51 to get to my 40% which is £272.51.

I would have assumed my buffer would go down by £272.51 which is £3,164.23 - £272.51 = £2,891.72
.
However according to the charges next weeks buffer will be £2,482.94 which is £681.29 less than this (last??) weeks buffer.

Can anyone explain where I am going wrong with the calculations?
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jamesedwards
Posts: 3455
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Driftspite wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2025 9:58 am
Can someone help me out with this: Capture.PNG
(not sure if the image will work, but.

I have been having a poor run recently and have some buffer (last weeks buff) which was £3,164.23 item [c]. I made gross £1,770.06 [a], and paid implied 'Commission Generated' of £435.51. I am at 40% charge level.

So 40% of gross is 0.4*£1,770.06 = £708.024.

I need to cover £708.02. - £435.51 to get to my 40% which is £272.51.

I would have assumed my buffer would go down by £272.51 which is £3,164.23 - £272.51 = £2,891.72
.
However according to the charges next weeks buffer will be £2,482.94 which is £681.29 less than this (last??) weeks buffer.

Can anyone explain where I am going wrong with the calculations?
I agree with you. Perhaps BF have noticed an error in the calcs which is why the link has been missing for sometime?

Your buffer as shown on the EF page dropped by £681.29 which can be reached by the following equation:

Gross P&L last week - (commission generated / fee rate)

1770.06 - (435.51 / 40%) = 681.29
Revenant
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2024 2:09 pm

I'd like to know how they calculated the Expert Fees Paid on the Account History section for the lifetime. It doesn't tally in any way with my last snapshot of the PC charges. Have they set that page as to what you would have paid under the new rules? Even then I can't tally them up. Guess as usual it's just one of those things we just have to accept and not waste time over thinking as it won't change anything.
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jamesedwards
Posts: 3455
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Revenant wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2025 12:44 pm
I'd like to know how they calculated the Expert Fees Paid on the Account History section for the lifetime. It doesn't tally in any way with my last snapshot of the PC charges. Have they set that page as to what you would have paid under the new rules? Even then I can't tally them up. Guess as usual it's just one of those things we just have to accept and not waste time over thinking as it won't change anything.
This number is actual Expert Fee + Premium Charge paid during the lifetime of the account. Mine tallies with what I've actually paid.

The previous number on the old Premium Charge page didn't reflect actual PC paid, it was the value used for the calculation (ie as if you had always paid PC at that rate).
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jamesedwards
Posts: 3455
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

jamesedwards wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2025 11:45 am
Driftspite wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2025 9:58 am
Can someone help me out with this: Capture.PNG
(not sure if the image will work, but.

I have been having a poor run recently and have some buffer (last weeks buff) which was £3,164.23 item [c]. I made gross £1,770.06 [a], and paid implied 'Commission Generated' of £435.51. I am at 40% charge level.

So 40% of gross is 0.4*£1,770.06 = £708.024.

I need to cover £708.02. - £435.51 to get to my 40% which is £272.51.

I would have assumed my buffer would go down by £272.51 which is £3,164.23 - £272.51 = £2,891.72
.
However according to the charges next weeks buffer will be £2,482.94 which is £681.29 less than this (last??) weeks buffer.

Can anyone explain where I am going wrong with the calculations?
I agree with you. Perhaps BF have noticed an error in the calcs which is why the link has been missing for sometime?

Your buffer as shown on the EF page dropped by £681.29 which can be reached by the following equation:

Gross P&L last week - (commission generated / fee rate)

1770.06 - (435.51 / 40%) = 681.29

Aside from whether the figure is correct, the terminology of this section makes no sense as neither figure can be determined until the week is complete. The Buffer value will change based on commission generated in the week ahead, while the fee rate may change based on your profit.

z54.JPG

They should change it to "Buffer carried forward" and "Expected fee rate" or something.
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Revenant
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2024 2:09 pm

jamesedwards wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2025 12:49 pm


This number is actual Expert Fee + Premium Charge paid during the lifetime of the account. Mine tallies with what I've actually paid.

The previous number on the old Premium Charge page didn't reflect actual PC paid, it was the value used for the calculation (ie as if you had always paid PC at that rate).
Thanks , I guess that should explain it as somewhere along the line I'd lost £70K on total fees paid and my comms paid gone up from the PC page.
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jamesedwards
Posts: 3455
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Revenant wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:04 pm
jamesedwards wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2025 12:49 pm


This number is actual Expert Fee + Premium Charge paid during the lifetime of the account. Mine tallies with what I've actually paid.

The previous number on the old Premium Charge page didn't reflect actual PC paid, it was the value used for the calculation (ie as if you had always paid PC at that rate).
Thanks , I guess that should explain it as somewhere along the line I'd lost £70K on total fees paid and my comms paid gone up from the PC page.
The "commission" figure on the old PC page was your lifetime commission generated, not actual commission paid.

It's great to be able to see actual commission paid and actual PC/EF fees paid now on the new EF page.
Driftspite
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:13 pm

"They should change it to "Buffer carried forward" and "Expected fee rate" or something."

That makes more sense, I (maybe like others) would keep a notion of PC Credit - how much my total fees were above 40%. I would then know that value could be offset against future PC. This definition of buffer is therefore different.

I have not had the inclination to see if these new methods make sense or not, I will look again another time.
User avatar
jamesedwards
Posts: 3455
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Driftspite wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2025 9:58 am
Can someone help me out with this: Capture.PNG
(not sure if the image will work, but.

I have been having a poor run recently and have some buffer (last weeks buff) which was £3,164.23 item [c]. I made gross £1,770.06 [a], and paid implied 'Commission Generated' of £435.51. I am at 40% charge level.

So 40% of gross is 0.4*£1,770.06 = £708.024.

I need to cover £708.02. - £435.51 to get to my 40% which is £272.51.

I would have assumed my buffer would go down by £272.51 which is £3,164.23 - £272.51 = £2,891.72
.
However according to the charges next weeks buffer will be £2,482.94 which is £681.29 less than this (last??) weeks buffer.

Can anyone explain where I am going wrong with the calculations?

So, the actual equation for the buffer is (commission generated / rate) - gross P&L. Therefore this is correct.

The lightbulb moment for me was realisation that the new buffer is the value you can win before charges resume, and not the value of Expert Fee credit in the bank.
gbriel
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2025 8:58 am

If we can't see a week by week P&L graph it will be very interesting.

January weeks negative 10k
February weeks negative 10k
March weeks positive 30k

Do tax management if you can.
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