Trading as main source of income

[jamesedwards]

Out of interest, for those of you who has trading as your main source of income, what do you tell people that you do? What do you tell insurance companies for quotes? What do you tell HMRC? etc etc

[Derek27]

There was a thread last year that started off about the definition of professional trader but moved on to what we call ourselves.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17880

[rik]

i guess depends if you want to talk about it to the person if not say computer stuff, programming, boring blabla
generally insurance or anything banking related is a problem with betting as main income no matter how well you do

[Derek27]

There was a time when if you didn't use a credit card, or used it but settled the account every month without paying interest, the card company would keep increasing your limit to encourage you to spend more. They didn't care what you did for a living or how much you earn as long as you're managing your account.

[ShaunWhite]

With people I gauge how much they might understand or actually care, because usually when people ask what you do is just a pleasantry rather than actually wanting to know. With insurance companies etc I pick something wooly like financial analyst (a nice sensible job which looks like I'm a careful type). With the HMRC, after a few zero income tax returns (quoting 'not in employment, independent means') they've stopped sending any letters at all.

[stueytrader]

(quoting 'not in employment, independent means')

Did they never get interested/suspicious? Ask for further information?

[spreadbetting]

He could simply say he lives off his wife's income.

[ShaunWhite]

(quoting 'not in employment, independent means')

Did they never get interested/suspicious? Ask for further information?

Nope, not one which suprised me a bit too. My age probably helps, it's not that unusual for people in their mid 50 to have retired early. And if needs be I had a decent looking bank account to show them with matching varifiable BF account info. My thinking was that if they don't see sports trading as a job then why confuse them by trying to explain it. And the fewer sports traders they think there are the better !!!! I didn't want to be the 3rd one that day and raise any eyebrows, non of us need that .

I've heard that people who might risk a large tax liability, even though that risk is very small, use accounts who specialise in pro poker players and gamblers. Not sure where, but they exist.

[stueytrader]

That is interesting, and not what I'd have expected from HMRC - always thought they were naturally suspicious or keen to find out more at least. Not bad if not the case though!

[Anna List]

Out of interest, for those of you who has trading as your main source of income, what do you tell people that you do? What do you tell insurance companies for quotes? What do you tell HMRC? etc etc

Firstly, I'm a layer, not a trader, not that it makes any difference.

After I went full-time, which was a good few years ago now, I had periodic run-ins with HMRC. Shortly after I filled in and returned their forms declaring zero taxable income, they would notify me that I was under investigation. Quite what they investigated I don't know because they never told me nor did they request additional information. Approximately three months after being informed of their investigations, I would receive a notification from HRMC stating that they had completed their investigations and that nothing untoward had been found. Two to three years later, shortly after completing and returning yet another tax form, HMRC would again inform me that I was being investigated again.

For the last five or so, HMRC have left me alone.

Initially, I told HMRC, and, sadly, the nosey soddin' neighbours, that I was an on-line gambler. HMRC didn't seem to give a rat's ass. The small-minded, two-faced neighbours, on the other hand, did. It was almost as if I'd told them that I was the devil-incarnate. In the end, we moved. Tossers.

Lesson learned, I now tell HMRC and our new neighbours that I'm a Quant which, given how much I ponder over my stats, is not too far from the truth. HMRC know what a Quant is and therefore have no need to ask and the neighbours don't ask because they don't want me to realise how dumb they are,

[jamesedwards]

Out of interest, for those of you who has trading as your main source of income, what do you tell people that you do? What do you tell insurance companies for quotes? What do you tell HMRC? etc etc

Firstly, I'm a layer, not a trader, not that it makes any difference.

After I went full-time, which was a good few years ago now, I had periodic run-ins with HMRC. Shortly after I filled in and returned their forms declaring zero taxable income, they would notify me that I was under investigation. Quite what they investigated I don't know because they never told me nor did they request additional information. Approximately three months after being informed of their investigations, I would receive a notification from HRMC stating that they had completed their investigations and that nothing untoward had been found. Two to three years later, shortly after completing and returning yet another tax form, HMRC would again inform me that I was being investigated again.

For the last five or so, HMRC have left me alone.

Initially, I told HMRC, and, sadly, the nosey soddin' neighbours, that I was an on-line gambler. HMRC didn't seem to give a rat's ass. The small-minded, two-faced neighbours, on the other hand, did. It was almost as if I'd told them that I was the devil-incarnate. In the end, we moved. Tossers.

Lesson learned, I now tell HMRC and our new neighbours that I'm a Quant which, given how much I ponder over my stats, is not too far from the truth. HMRC know what a Quant is and therefore have no need to ask and the neighbours don't ask because they don't want me to realise how dumb they are,

LOL, like it. I am currently marked as self-employed as I have a very small reselling business. This means I can pay the last 2 years of my NI stamp. Dont know what HMRC will say when I declare the £1k profit as my sole taxable income.

[SweetLyrics]

With insurance companies etc I pick something wooly like financial analyst (a nice sensible job which looks like I'm a careful type).

Be careful, because if you have to make a claim, that could come to bite you in the arse when they say that your premium was based on a misrepresentation, making the policy null and void.

I seem to remember that, back in the days when I made my income from gambling, I'd ask the insurance companies what to put down for profession and go with their advice, so if push came to shove I could say 'Listen to the recorded call. I was completely open with your colleague about how I make my money, so there was no misrepresentation. If your colleague chose to put me in the wrong category because they wanted to get commission on a sale, take that up with them!'.

[jamesedwards]

For my car insurance quote this year I put "retired" rather than farting around with various dubious self-employed job titles. Had a look at "housewife/husband" too. Had never thought of these options before. Both came out cheaper than self-employed.

Worth a try for all you full-time traders out there.

[Hepburn]

Diversify your skill set and don't tell anyone about your trading.

[ShaunWhite]

For my car insurance quote this year I put "retired" rather than farting around with various dubious self-employed job titles. Had a look at "housewife/husband" too. Had never thought of these options before. Both came out cheaper than self-employed.

Worth a try for all you full-time traders out there.

Same.