http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... -harman.do
God help us if that nutter ever becomes PM!
Would she prefer bookmaking to be run by the criminal underworld?
Jeff
Attack on bookmakers by Harriet Harm-Men
She pointed to her own Camberwell and Peckham constituency, where one shopping area has eight betting shops in two streets. And as further evidence that poor areas are being targeted, she highlighted previous research from Tottenham MP David Lammy that indicated Newham has three times as many bookmakers as Richmond-upon-Thames.
That may well be so, but it's probably balanced out by residents of Richmond being three times more likely to have access to various online accounts.
The point she's making though has some validity. I started my career as a Ladbrokes betting shop manager, and invariably the best performing shops were ones in working class areas.
That may well be so, but it's probably balanced out by residents of Richmond being three times more likely to have access to various online accounts.
The point she's making though has some validity. I started my career as a Ladbrokes betting shop manager, and invariably the best performing shops were ones in working class areas.
I'm sure that's the case, but IMHO it's not for government to tell people how to spend their own money.
And if you shut down high street bookies, all that will happen is that people will place their bets online, and thousands of betting shop staff will end up on the dole queue...
Jeff
And if you shut down high street bookies, all that will happen is that people will place their bets online, and thousands of betting shop staff will end up on the dole queue...
Jeff
LeTiss 4pm wrote: The point she's making though has some validity. I started my career as a Ladbrokes betting shop manager, and invariably the best performing shops were ones in working class areas.
But the answer isn't legislation. That's a bit like saying that we should ban alcohol because of its negative effects on a minority of drinkers.
If people want to waste their money, they'll find a way. If you get rid of or restrict roulette machines, they'll try online poker or something else.
Jeff
If people want to waste their money, they'll find a way. If you get rid of or restrict roulette machines, they'll try online poker or something else.
Jeff
hgodden wrote:Tbh I agree with what she says, its about time politicians started looking at the roulette machines and the people who are addicted to them.
I doubt it. Many of the people using the roulette machines could barely operate a computer. A lot of them go in there after cashing their giro and half of its gone in a few minutes - those machines lose people money at a faster rate than any other form of gambling I can think of.
I can't buy the whole argument that other things should be legal just because alcohol is. If it was discovered now it would probably be banned. You can argue about the relative good / bad points about various 'activities' but I can't see a great deal of good coming from those machines - you don't exactly need a lot of people working in the bookies to run them and I don't hear people complaining about the poor souls who used to make and fill up cigarette machines which you don't see so much
I can't buy the whole argument that other things should be legal just because alcohol is. If it was discovered now it would probably be banned. You can argue about the relative good / bad points about various 'activities' but I can't see a great deal of good coming from those machines - you don't exactly need a lot of people working in the bookies to run them and I don't hear people complaining about the poor souls who used to make and fill up cigarette machines which you don't see so much
Perhaps, but they'd be motivated learners!hgodden wrote:I doubt it. Many of the people using the roulette machines could barely operate a computer.
What is the point of banning something? You deny the taxman money, honest and hardworking people lose their jobs, you glamourise the thing you ban, and you play into the hands of the criminal underworld.hgodden wrote:I can't buy the whole argument that other things should be legal just because alcohol is.
So would the car - that's not a compelling argument.hgodden wrote:If it was discovered now it would probably be banned.
I remember you writing that a bookie you knew made far more money from his slot machines than from horses.hgodden wrote:you don't exactly need a lot of people working in the bookies to run them
If you removed the roulette machines, it would probably cost lots of jobs. And let's face it, if Harperson were PM with a decent majority, she wouldn't stop there. She clearly doesn't like bookmakers, and would probably ban them outright if she could...
Jeff
I wonder, in % terms, just how much is turned over in shops in relation to the all betting mediums. (online etc).
If you want to tackle gambling, your online companies are surely your first port of call - the visible fronts such as high st shops are just easy targets for politicians who are more interested in making an apparent visible impact than a real impact.
My bookies only ever seems to be frequented by older (50+) men.
If you want to tackle gambling, your online companies are surely your first port of call - the visible fronts such as high st shops are just easy targets for politicians who are more interested in making an apparent visible impact than a real impact.
My bookies only ever seems to be frequented by older (50+) men.
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andyfuller
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I feel odd saying it but I agree with Harriet 
The wider social issues these kind of things cause can be huge.
If you walk around Newmarket the number of betting shops is just crazy, there must be at least 6 if not more Ladbrokes alone!
Walk past these shops and people are piling their money into these kind of machines at an alarming rate.
The problem with saying people should be free to spend their money as they wish is that a lot of people in this country are just stupid and actually need guidance/help/precautions as they are unable to do so for themselves.
The machines don't create a lot of jobs at all imo and if people weren't putting their money in to them they would spend it else where offsetting the loss of jobs and perhaps creating more.
The wider social issues these kind of things cause can be huge.
If you walk around Newmarket the number of betting shops is just crazy, there must be at least 6 if not more Ladbrokes alone!
Walk past these shops and people are piling their money into these kind of machines at an alarming rate.
The problem with saying people should be free to spend their money as they wish is that a lot of people in this country are just stupid and actually need guidance/help/precautions as they are unable to do so for themselves.
The machines don't create a lot of jobs at all imo and if people weren't putting their money in to them they would spend it else where offsetting the loss of jobs and perhaps creating more.
Ditto the ones I've used.
In the bookies I've been in, I've been just about the only customer who thought in decimal odds and had to convert them to traditional odds!
It's like stepping back in time!
Jeff
In the bookies I've been in, I've been just about the only customer who thought in decimal odds and had to convert them to traditional odds!
It's like stepping back in time!
Jeff
Yantraman wrote: My bookies only ever seems to be frequented by older (50+) men.
Are you seriously advocating treating grown adults like children, and restricting how they can spend their money, on the basis that some of them are thick?andyfuller wrote: The problem with saying people should be free to spend their money as they wish is that a lot of people in this country are just stupid and actually need guidance/help/precautions as they are unable to do so for themselves.
Would you also outlaw Betfair, on the grounds that most of its customers lose money consistently, with a few traders and gamblers (along with Betfair itself) at the top of the pyramid, and everyone else losing money?
I once worked with a guy who claimed to have lost 750K on Betfair (and I believe him - the guy was a phenomenally successful salesman).
Jeff
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andyfuller
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Why would the car be banned? Because some people die driving it?Ferru123 wrote:So would the car - that's not a compelling argument.hgodden wrote:If it was discovered now it would probably be banned.
Yes - 'elf and safety!
The Internet probably would also have been heavily restricted if politicians had forseen 20 years ago how big it would grow, before it became too big to easily control...
Jeff
The Internet probably would also have been heavily restricted if politicians had forseen 20 years ago how big it would grow, before it became too big to easily control...
Jeff
andyfuller wrote: Why would the car be banned? Because some people die driving it?
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andyfuller
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Yes I am advocating treating adults as children at times. Taking a friday night for example, there are some people who would (some do) go to pubs and drink themselves into such a state that they pass out etc. They are unable to make sensible decisions so that decision has been taken out of their hands as much as is possible and they should no longer be served when drunk.Ferru123 wrote: Are you seriously advocating treating grown adults like children, and restricting how they can spend their money, on the basis that some of them are thick?
Would you also outlaw Betfair, on the grounds that most of its customers lose money consistently, with a few traders and gamblers (along with Betfair itself) at the top of the pyramid, and everyone else losing money?
I once worked with a guy who claimed to have lost 750K on Betfair (and I believe him - the guy was a phenomenally successful salesman).
I wouldn't outlaw Betfair either and I wouldn't out law the machines. Measure need to be taken to govern their use and the current rules are not sufficient imo.
Another good example of people being stupid are people speeding, rules are put in place about how fast you can go but if you removed those restrictions and made it a free for all as you seem to imply you prefer you would get people going at 70mph+ in built up areas, past schools etc.
What do you mean by Health and Safety. Cars are very safe. To misquote Theo P who said on Dragon's Den this year, cars don't cause accidents people do.