When is a bet struck?

[MrJoeBlack]

Is a bet struck when it is matched or when it is placed?

[jamesedwards]

Is a bet struck when it is matched or when it is placed?

With a bookie a bet is struck as it is placed.

I would say that struck in an Exchange would be when it's matched.

[MrJoeBlack]

I was sure that unmatched hedge bets used to auto-adjust as per the reduction factor. However, BF are saying that as the persistence on unmatched bets was marked as keep they are not officially struck until they are matched and therefore do not auto-adjust.

[jamesedwards]

I was sure that unmatched hedge bets used to auto-adjust as per the reduction factor. However, BF are saying that as the persistence on unmatched bets was marked as keep they are not officially struck until they are matched and therefore do not auto-adjust.

10. 'Keep' bets option
For markets that are scheduled to be turned in-play at the 'off', a customer can request that an unmatched Exchange bet should not be cancelled when the market is turned in-play. This is done by selecting the 'At In-Play: Keep' option in the bet manager (and confirming that request) and means that the unmatched bet persists when other unmatched bets are cancelled at the start of the event.
As described above, when a non-runner is removed from a horseracing market (apart for late withdrawals as described in the next bullet point below), it is Betfair's policy to cancel unmatched offers to lay all other horses in the market if the non-runner has a reduction factor of 2.5% or greater for win markets, or 4.0% or greater for place markets. In these circumstances offers to lay a horse with the 'At In-Play: Keep' option selected will not be cancelled. Instead the lay odds offered in place markets will be reduced in proportion with the reduction factors of any non-runner(s) and the same will apply in win markets providing the relevant non-runner has a reduction factor of at least 2.5%.
When there is a late withdrawal, Betfair may not have time to remove the non-runner from the market before turning it in-play. In such cases if Betfair is able to determine that the late withdrawal is a material runner (i.e. a selection with a reduction factor of approx 20% or greater in the win market), it reserves the right to cancel ALL lay 'keep' bets (in both the win and ‘to be placed’ markets) before turning the market in-play. If Betfair does not cancel lay 'keep' bets in the case of a late withdrawal (for example, it may not be possible to know which horse is withdrawn, at the time of the off), any such bets placed before the off and matched in-play will remain at the original selected price. This means that those lay 'keep' bets will not be subject to any reduction factor which as a result of the late withdrawal, will be applied after the completion of the race to bets matched at or before the 'off'.
Otherwise, in exceptional cases Betfair reserves the right to cancel 'keep' bets to protect customers but, unless stipulated in the market rules or the market information, the general principle is that at no point will a 'keep' bet be cancelled by Betfair unless it remains unmatched when the market is closed (for the final time) at the end of the event.

[MrJoeBlack]

Thank you.

It's this bit here - "If Betfair does not cancel lay 'keep' bets in the case of a late withdrawal (for example, it may not be possible to know which horse is withdrawn, at the time of the off), any such bets placed before the off and matched in-play will remain at the original selected price. This means that those lay 'keep' bets will not be subject to any reduction factor which as a result of the late withdrawal, will be applied after the completion of the race to bets matched at or before the 'off'."

Which means they have been settle correctly (and I lose - not uncommon these days) - bit of a sticky rule though!

[ShaunWhite]

Is a bet struck when it is matched or when it is placed?

Matched, ie when the handshake seals the deal. Until then it's just an offer.

[MrJoeBlack]

I agree - it just strikes me that the offer should be subject to the reduction factor...

[jamesedwards]

I agree - it just strikes me that the offer should be subject to the reduction factor...

Isn't that what this says? As long as the reduction factor is >2.5%.

In these circumstances offers to lay a horse with the 'At In-Play: Keep' option selected will not be cancelled. Instead the lay odds offered in place markets will be reduced in proportion with the reduction factors of any non-runner(s) and the same will apply in win markets providing the relevant non-runner has a reduction factor of at least 2.5%.

[jamesedwards]

I agree - it just strikes me that the offer should be subject to the reduction factor...

Isn't that what this says? As long as the reduction factor is >2.5%.

In these circumstances offers to lay a horse with the 'At In-Play: Keep' option selected will not be cancelled. Instead the lay odds offered in place markets will be reduced in proportion with the reduction factors of any non-runner(s) and the same will apply in win markets providing the relevant non-runner has a reduction factor of at least 2.5%.

Ah, I get it, there was a late withdrawal and not removed by Betfair before the race? Therefore the bet was matched in-play and there is no reduction factor applied to the in-running market.

[jamesedwards]

I agree - it just strikes me that the offer should be subject to the reduction factor...

Isn't that what this says? As long as the reduction factor is >2.5%.

In these circumstances offers to lay a horse with the 'At In-Play: Keep' option selected will not be cancelled. Instead the lay odds offered in place markets will be reduced in proportion with the reduction factors of any non-runner(s) and the same will apply in win markets providing the relevant non-runner has a reduction factor of at least 2.5%.

Ah, I get it, there was a late withdrawal and not removed by Betfair before the race? Therefore the bet was matched in-play and there is no reduction factor applied to the in-running market.

Won't work every time, but often in races with a withdrawn horse left in the market, the lay book% will sit above 100% as soon as it goes in-play. You could try using this as a flag to cancel your bets.

[MrJoeBlack]

Thanks. Appreciate the advice.
Just strikes me the rule is fundamentally flawed. Less than 2.5% reduction - where do they come up with that. If it's that in significant then don't take it off the other side! Doesn't make sense to me.