Greening Close placement speed — 2nd best vs best market price

[aljacko1]

Hi all,

I've been running a pre-race automation bot in Guardian for a few weeks now and have a question about the Greening Close rule placement setting.

My setup is a simple pre-race lay bot. When the position needs closing, a Greening Close rule fires in the final 30 seconds before in-play. It's currently set to Best market price on the Parameters tab.

The issue I'm seeing occasionally is that the Greening Close bets don't fully match before the market goes in-play, particularly in thinner markets. This leaves a residual position going in-play which is obviously not ideal.

Bet Angel support pointed me to the Place at dropdown on the Parameters tab, which has a range of options from Best market price through to Reverse market price.

My question for the community:

Has anyone experimented with 2nd best or 3rd best market price for a Greening Close rule firing in the last 30 seconds pre-race? Does it meaningfully improve fill speed and reduce unmatched residuals, or does it not make much practical difference in your experience?

And is Reverse market price ever worth considering for a closing rule, or is the price concession too large to be worthwhile?

Any real-world experience with this would be really appreciated.

Thanks

[ShaunWhite]

It comes down to how much you want to spend to equalise your position, if you accept a worse price then you'll get filled but you'll be giving away value. It's the same as selling anything, it's a balance between getting buyers and the price you're asking; too expensive and you sell nothing, too cheap and it's not profitable anymore.

As a rule of thumb the current mid price is near enough the correct fair price. So taking anything worse costs you money and anything better (ie if you offer) is profitable.

But difficult to summarise in a couple of sentances as it's the essence of profitable betting/trading.

[aljacko1]

Thanks ShaunWhite,

That's a really helpful way of framing it — and the point about mid price being approximately fair value makes sense.

My specific concern is the time constraint. The Greening Close fires in the last 30 seconds before in-play. If the bet doesn't match in that window, the position goes in-play open, which is the outcome I'm trying to avoid.

In that situation — where the consequence of not filling is going in-play with an unhedged position — does the calculus change? Or is best market price still the right setting and I should accept that occasional unmatched residuals are just part of running a pre-race bot?

Thanks again

[jamesedwards]

You can green up more than once.

Nothing to stop you greening every few seconds until you have no unmatched bets.

[aljacko1]

Thanks jamesedwards,

That's an interesting approach.

Just to clarify my setup — the Greening Close rule is currently set to fire in the last 30 seconds before in-play, with a limited number of triggers and a short wait between attempts. So it does attempt to close multiple times, but not indefinitely.

A couple of follow-up questions if you don't mind:

1. When you say green up every few seconds, how many attempts would you typically configure in a 30-second window? And what wait interval between triggers works best in your experience?

2. Do you find that repeated attempts at best market price consistently fill in thin markets, or do you sometimes still end up with a residual going in-play?

I'm also still curious whether anyone has direct experience comparing best market price vs 2nd best market price specifically on a closing rule in the pre-race window — whether the price concession is noticeable over a large sample or whether the improved fill rate offsets it.

Any thoughts from others who run pre-race automation welcome.

[jamesedwards]

Thanks jamesedwards,

That's an interesting approach.

Just to clarify my setup — the Greening Close rule is currently set to fire in the last 30 seconds before in-play, with a limited number of triggers and a short wait between attempts. So it does attempt to close multiple times, but not indefinitely.

A couple of follow-up questions if you don't mind:

1. When you say green up every few seconds, how many attempts would you typically configure in a 30-second window? And what wait interval between triggers works best in your experience?

2. Do you find that repeated attempts at best market price consistently fill in thin markets, or do you sometimes still end up with a residual going in-play?

I'm also still curious whether anyone has direct experience comparing best market price vs 2nd best market price specifically on a closing rule in the pre-race window — whether the price concession is noticeable over a large sample or whether the improved fill rate offsets it.

Any thoughts from others who run pre-race automation welcome.

I would set it to green 10 times every 3 seconds between 30 secs and 0 secs out. You can add a condition that there must be greater than 0 unmatched bets then it will stop once your greening is complete.

It all depends on the size of stakes compared to the type of market but if it's UK horse racing then you'll probably be fine 100%.

[aljacko1]

Thanks jamesedwards,

That's really specific and helpful — exactly what I was looking for.

10 triggers at 3-second intervals with an unmatched bets > 0 condition makes a lot of sense. The condition stopping the rule once the position is fully closed is a neat solution to avoid unnecessary firing.

I'm going to collect a few more cards of data on my current setup before making changes, so I can compare before and after properly. But your configuration is what I'll be testing next.

One further question if you don't mind — have you found the unmatched bets > 0 condition to be reliable in practice? Does it consistently stop the rule firing once the position is closed, or have you ever seen it continue firing after the position is fully matched?

Also interested if anyone else has experience with this type of configuration or has compared best market price vs 2nd best market price on a closing rule over a reasonable sample. Always good to hear different approaches.

[jamesedwards]

One further question if you don't mind — have you found the unmatched bets > 0 condition to be reliable in practice? Does it consistently stop the rule firing once the position is closed, or have you ever seen it continue firing after the position is fully matched?

It will be fine. The only consideration would be for in-play betting where there is a Betfair added delay to bets hitting the market which would confuse things somewhat if the delay was over 3 seconds. But for pre-off you will be fine.