Most youd risk on one market

[jamesedwards]

Staking for me is all about maximising profitability. Every market has a finite level of liquidity so ROI% will diminish as stake increases. The gearing ratio at which this happens depends on the type of market and associated liquidity.

eg on Premier League football the relationship between ROI and stake will be low, whereas on an obscure low league match it will be much higher. It's all about finding the sweet spot that maximises total profit in that particular market.

Perhaps a Premier League market with a lower gearing ratio might have a sweet spot of £5.50, whereas the higher gearing ratio on a lower league match might have a much lower £3 sweet spot.

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[stueytrader]

That's an interesting approach, using relation to potential return ratios, thanks James.

[stueytrader]

As a general point I think staking level, and risk levels, are fascinating areas because there is a huge amount of potential variability and choice possible.

It seems simple: don't overstake relative to your banks, don't understake relative to returns you want to achieve.

But, within those broader guidelines there is an extremely large amount of choice available to select. I know ideas like risk of ruin and kelly criterion are often discussed too as principles mathematically, and maybe related to your wider idea above for returns ratios.

Then there is the whole question of what you may be 'comfortable' with risking at any given time, or period of time. Sometimes maths suggests an optimal staking would be best, but you might personally not sleep at night with that level!

It's a wide question, both in maths, process, optimality and subjective judgement. Hence very interesting.

[stueytrader]

Well, I thought it was anyway

Seriously though, would love to hear others thoughts or choices and decisions about how they choose their staking levels.

From my own - I used to stake stupid high in the past, that worked well, until it didn't. Winning runs make you feel like a god, but nights after losing about 40% of your wider finances (not just betting bank) hit home like you've caught the plague.

Obviously I gradually realised my mistakes in overstaking - I honed some very carefully crafted staking plans. But always ponder whether I'm making enough, or risking too little, or risking too much each week, day and month.

I use pricing to create my own sliding scale - so an odds on bet/trade, is a much smaller stake overall than something that is priced 32.0+ on BF as the extremes. (edit. to clarify, that is because I am almost 100% laying). That is also something I've worked on for details, i.e. what pricing bands should link with specific staking levels.

Some weeks I look back and think - blimey, I was risking too much this week, and I go back and reduce my tables for levels again. Or, in linked ideas I alter the level of trading risk I can accept e.g. laying a horse, can I leave some red at various levels after trying to trade for a green.

Relation to my wider finance is also something I work on in planning quite often. How much of my own liquid funds can I invest on a regular basis, and what would happen to my wider bank in a massive downswing. This is closely linked to staking level chosen - I know, I've had sleepless nights when I get this wrong. I would now roughly invest in trading with about up to 15% of my wider finances I have at any time, and never any more - that is not on one race of course! But just my trading bank I will be holding in betting banks at any given time. Going over that starts to feel bad on the wider finances.

These are all works in progress, and will likely change often again for me in future.

[ODPaul82]

For me on tennis depends on strategy, what set is being played, how far into the set has been played, price of player & if I'm entering on lay or back side.
Based on above my staking will vary between 2.5-10% of bank.

If my loss on any match hits 2-3% of bank then I close it and move onto the next match although vast majority of time my max loss is 1-1.5% by the end.

I don't get attached & chase nor bothered by a loss as there's always another match either coming up or the next day.

[stueytrader]

For me on tennis depends on strategy, what set is being played, how far into the set has been played, price of player & if I'm entering on lay or back side.
Based on above my staking will vary between 2.5-10% of bank.

If my loss on any match hits 2-3% of bank then I close it and move onto the next match although vast majority of time my max loss is 1-1.5% by the end.

I don't get attached & chase nor bothered by a loss as there's always another match either coming up or the next day.

Yes, good point indeed, about never being overly attached to a loss - though I believe that is fundamentally related to staking choices. It's a lot easier to be detached when it isn't an amount that 'matters' as much in isolation, and a lot harder to do so, if it does. But the equation about what matters is fundamentally also related to what amount of your own personal finance you are happy to risk in trading. I suppose it is also the same for people like private stock exchange day traders too - just that we rarely hear about them.

[ODPaul82]

Yes, good point indeed, about never being overly attached to a loss - though I believe that is fundamentally related to staking choices. It's a lot easier to be detached when it isn't an amount that 'matters' as much in isolation, and a lot harder to do so, if it does. But the equation about what matters is fundamentally also related to what amount of your own personal finance you are happy to risk in trading. I suppose it is also the same for people like private stock exchange day traders too - just that we rarely hear about them.

100% related to the staking choice. the sport in itself or the market you trade on that market should also come into consideration as there'll be different risk/reward ratios. My bankroll is ringfenced away from everything in relation to my personal finances as if I have no bankroll then I have no income. I treat it as a business bank account, trading I treat entirely as a business. Every single thing I do is recorded, noted down and reviewed.

I think day traders will be using stop losses extensively, I tried doing it before going on technicals but I was shit.
My best friends boyfriend does them extensively, has made a shed load on oil fluctuations based off the news. He's never the first in, he's definitely not the smartest but what he does works. I'll ping her and ask how much he risks, I'd assume 5% personally

One question actually for all is at what point do you say "ouch" to yourself over the course of a day with overall loss.
For me I'd say >10% bank would be an ouch moment, they are few and far between thankfully but all my aproaches on sports are very swing orientated as that's what I feel comfortable doing. Could never get into scalping 1/2 ticks, tried, just awful at it

[ODPaul82]

Overstakes was the response from friend, in that he went from £7k to £4k in one day, end of the week he was at £15k for this week.
He takes out when a trade he's in hits £500-600.

[stueytrader]

Overstakes was the response from friend, in that he went from £7k to £4k in one day, end of the week he was at £15k for this week.
He takes out when a trade he's in hits £500-600.

Thanks, an interesting example from that arena - I've always thought stock trading, in particular short-term or day, was very akin to sports betting trading. In fact, I've even seen some research journal articles that have compared the type of activity and investment, e.g. dealing with losses, chasing etc, and they are very similar in findings from what I recall reading.