The stuff that takes a lot of time IMO isn't so much indicators, it's more subconscious things like recognising patterns, gaining experience of how to deal with different pressures and different types of markets. There's an element to trading that IMO is carried out by muscle memory rather than just thinking all the time and that is something that takes time to build upEquity wrote:I would like to ask you one thing: is there really so much more to learn? I bet most of successful traders base their decisions on few basic indicators they read from chart and ladder. Am I wrong?
Should I call it quits?
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
it's like anything else... if you practice enough you'll get good at it (assuming you can exercise a bit of discipline and can learn from mistakes). a bit like playing a computer game or learning a language - you'll be rubbish at the start (i know i was) and you have to accept that you won't be making money until you improve sufficiently.
http://www.betangel.com/blog_wp/2010/05 ... ky-wicket/Recognising your flaws and errors and attempting to strike them out is a critically important part of trading successfully. Failure to do so will inevitably lead you down a path of frustration and failure and it’s a path that’s followed by a surprising number of people, but it’s completely avoidable.
I started turning profit consistently in second or third month of trading, but that was almost 3years ago. Doubt that I'd make it this quick in today's markets, especially this time of year. Keep it up, mental state is most important in trading, control yourself and your losses and you'll make it 
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
Im with hgodden. Basing desicions on the graphs/indicators is not that relevant. I know for the first 6 months that i traded, i thought the correct way was to put money in at the pressure points onl. Now i base my decisions on how i feel the market is moving within the past xxx mins, seconds.... To me the biggest thing i didnt understand for a long time was the time from the off and how it affected how things were happening.
I'm giving trading another go. First thing I had to do was to create another Betfair account and move my non horse trading activities there. My Betfair balance for horse trading was way too high and there was a chance of an error on my part which could possibly wipe my whole BF balance. So one thing less to worry about...
Only problem is that BA is working only with one BF username. I think it should be tied to a name.
Regarding your suggestions:
Overall I think my mental approach is good. I'm not expecting market to do anything for me. I'm trying to be as emotionally dispatched from it as possible. I know that I have to buy value and sell it higher which will not work on trade to trade basis but will long term.
I'm aware of my mental weaknesses too. In general I'm looking too much on my p&l both in betfair account and on ladder in BA and this is affecting my decision making. Obviously my profit or loss on certain trade have nothing to do with market fundamentals.But I think I'm making a good progress here.
Another issue becomes evident when I have good run. I become overconfident and start being reckless and overtrade.
I think I'm doing my best when I'm desperate. When I know I have to give it all or I'm done. Then I'm really honest with myself, I'm more open and my senses go 100%. I'm also more inclined to go against mass opinion which might be evident at a time. On the other hand when I'm overconfident I'm trying to bag "easy ones" following the crowd which obviously doesn't work.
Anyway thanks for listening your feedback is much appreciated.
Good luck
Only problem is that BA is working only with one BF username. I think it should be tied to a name.
Regarding your suggestions:
Overall I think my mental approach is good. I'm not expecting market to do anything for me. I'm trying to be as emotionally dispatched from it as possible. I know that I have to buy value and sell it higher which will not work on trade to trade basis but will long term.
I'm aware of my mental weaknesses too. In general I'm looking too much on my p&l both in betfair account and on ladder in BA and this is affecting my decision making. Obviously my profit or loss on certain trade have nothing to do with market fundamentals.But I think I'm making a good progress here.
Another issue becomes evident when I have good run. I become overconfident and start being reckless and overtrade.
I think I'm doing my best when I'm desperate. When I know I have to give it all or I'm done. Then I'm really honest with myself, I'm more open and my senses go 100%. I'm also more inclined to go against mass opinion which might be evident at a time. On the other hand when I'm overconfident I'm trying to bag "easy ones" following the crowd which obviously doesn't work.
Anyway thanks for listening your feedback is much appreciated.
Good luck
Zenyatta
If you start with a small bank and stake conservatively, I'd have thought you'd be able to turn your small bank into a big one quite quickly...
Jeff
If you start with a small bank and stake conservatively, I'd have thought you'd be able to turn your small bank into a big one quite quickly...
Jeff
Zenyatta wrote: Found a big edge, but don't have a big enough bank yet and so I keep over-extending and 'falling off the edge' right down the cliff
I decided to leave horse racing for now.
I have been arbing football for the last almost 5 years and have found I feel much more comfortable trading football and tennis.
I have to admit horse racing is so much more demanding. It's like university of sports trading, compressed in few minutes where you need to make quite a few decisions over and over!
There are so many issues which make it much harder than other sports. It looks like there is tons of traders rubbing shoulders trying to squeeze something out of it. And market is not nearly big enough for most of them! I'm not saying it isn't possible to crack it but it just might not be worth it for me. I think even people like Peter who was trading horses for past 10 years are keener to look elsewhere.
But I will have a look again when season picks up to see if there is more opportunities.
I have been trading football and tennis this weekend - and let me tell you difference was huge.
Trading horses I felt like blind in the forest trying to find a way home.
In football there is dozen of major bookies which keep price in check so I'm not trying to figure out all of those fake horse racing moves. Market forces are much more visible to me and I have ton of time to make my decision.
IMO trying to learn trading horses at the moment people are not looking to make maximum profit but rather trying to prove themselves they cracked the hardest thing
I have been arbing football for the last almost 5 years and have found I feel much more comfortable trading football and tennis.
I have to admit horse racing is so much more demanding. It's like university of sports trading, compressed in few minutes where you need to make quite a few decisions over and over!
There are so many issues which make it much harder than other sports. It looks like there is tons of traders rubbing shoulders trying to squeeze something out of it. And market is not nearly big enough for most of them! I'm not saying it isn't possible to crack it but it just might not be worth it for me. I think even people like Peter who was trading horses for past 10 years are keener to look elsewhere.
But I will have a look again when season picks up to see if there is more opportunities.
I have been trading football and tennis this weekend - and let me tell you difference was huge.
Trading horses I felt like blind in the forest trying to find a way home.
In football there is dozen of major bookies which keep price in check so I'm not trying to figure out all of those fake horse racing moves. Market forces are much more visible to me and I have ton of time to make my decision.
IMO trying to learn trading horses at the moment people are not looking to make maximum profit but rather trying to prove themselves they cracked the hardest thing
Maybe that is where you were going wrong - you were trying to find patterns in randomness.
You don't need to know exactly what the market is going to do next to make a profit. Why not try zooming out, and looking at the bigger picture, responding to the nature of the market? For example, if the market is trending, hop onto the trend. It might last, it might not. If it doesn't, you just scatch quickly. And if the market is stuck in a tight range, why not just bang a few scalps through? At worst, you'll more or less break even...
Jeff
You don't need to know exactly what the market is going to do next to make a profit. Why not try zooming out, and looking at the bigger picture, responding to the nature of the market? For example, if the market is trending, hop onto the trend. It might last, it might not. If it doesn't, you just scatch quickly. And if the market is stuck in a tight range, why not just bang a few scalps through? At worst, you'll more or less break even...
Jeff
Equity wrote: Trading horses I felt like blind in the forest trying to find a way home.
True, I just haven't had enough disciple in staking, but my method is a high-risk/big-return maneuver that needs a lot of discipline to wait for an opportunity, then very quick thinking and a big stake to pull off. Hard to get exacty right.Ferru123 wrote:Zenyatta
If you start with a small bank and stake conservatively, I'd have thought you'd be able to turn your small bank into a big one quite quickly...
I'm with Equity on this one overall, I think the UK horse racing stuff really is the devils own work. Just really really tough. *sigh*
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psycho040253
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:29 pm
If you do better at football and tennis than you do with horses, stick to football and tennis. Why bother with horses when you are struggling with them? Do what you do best and what you don't do well at, don't do at all.
Psycho
Psycho