Im really starting to get the hang of this trading lark both on the football and horse markets (very early days on horses) but seeing the opportunities and taking them fairly well without the software, which is getting bought asap.
My question is, and I may have asked this before, how do you survive in the modern world with trading as an income? Im 26, live with mates so outgoings low. Got a mrs and soon enough it will get to that stage of moving in, owning a house etc and that is the one thing that puts me off trading FT. I earn a decent living through recruitment but hate recruitment and most who work within it.
You can earn decent money but the banks etc will dismiss any application I make for credit etc. Is there a clever way round? The only thing I can think of is going self employed a running x amount of trading income through a business so I have a taxable wage, that seems quite wasteful though.
Any ideas?
Fitting into the real world
It's definitely one of the negatives of being a full time sports trader, it's damn near impossible these days to get a decent sized loan or mortage without proving your income and your Betfair profit and loss statement will not cut it unfortuantly 
.
Maybe in the future it will be recongnised as a real way of making a living,
but for now we are just ahead of our time
.Maybe in the future it will be recongnised as a real way of making a living,
but for now we are just ahead of our time
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psycho040253
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:29 pm
Hi SharpsySharpsy wrote:Im really starting to get the hang of this trading lark both on the football and horse markets (very early days on horses) but seeing the opportunities and taking them fairly well without the software, which is getting bought asap.
My question is, and I may have asked this before, how do you survive in the modern world with trading as an income? Im 26, live with mates so outgoings low. Got a mrs and soon enough it will get to that stage of moving in, owning a house etc and that is the one thing that puts me off trading FT. I earn a decent living through recruitment but hate recruitment and most who work within it.
You can earn decent money but the banks etc will dismiss any application I make for credit etc. Is there a clever way round? The only thing I can think of is going self employed a running x amount of trading income through a business so I have a taxable wage, that seems quite wasteful though.
Any ideas?
I went to HSBC for a mortgage several years ago. When they saw Betfair on my bank statement that was it - a flat NO - even though I had a more than healthy savings account with them and a bl00dy good credit history. My wife earned a good income - one that would have paid a mortgage with ease and it was still NO.
I asked them if I could open a new bank account specifically for my Betfair transactions and they refused even that request.
I was in a small office with a HSBC manager at the time. So, I went into the main foyer of the bank with him and proceeded to tell him exactly what I thought of him and his fu**ing bank - particularly as they had just lost a fortune gambling on sub-prime mortgages (of the credit crunch fame). Sorry, did I say 'gambling'? I meant to say 'investing', my mistake.
Anyways, I asked him to close all my accounts with immediate effect, gesticulated unto him and walked out.
Yeh, I know. But it made me feel better.
Went to LloydsTSB.
Told them the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about my 'investing' (Sorry - I meant gambling). They opened up three accounts straight away. One for my day-to-day affairs, one for my gambling affairs and one savings account. How about a mortgage? I said. They told me that they didn't see any problems. Just goes to show how much banks vary.
I didn't take out a mortgage in the end because I did some thinking and a lot of research and contacted a few guys in the financial world that I know.
I reckoned that the credit crunch was going to last a lot longer than anyone imagined and that we would have a lot of unemployment and that the price of houses was either going down or was going to stagnate at best. I therefore decided to rent since I figured that investing/gambling on house prices was not a good move.
Now, we will soon be at the point where my wife can give up her job and we can live off my gambling.
Selling a house isn't easy these days. We don't have that problem. We can vacate the house with a couple of months notice and we can go and live in the sun and live off my income because the internet is everywhere. If it all ends in tears, we can always come back.
My advice to you Sharpsy, good Sir, is to stay out of the real world for there, be dragons! - as they used to write on old maps!
These days, it's best, IMHO, to stay as flexible as you can and not to be tied down with your cahunas in a vice.
My other piece of advice is don't listen to me.
Have a bl00dy good think about what you want out of life, draw up a plan and then JFDI.
I wish you luck whatever you decide.
Psycho
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mister man
- Posts: 363
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:10 pm
great post psycho...
the banking bit is very relevant, to their hypocrisy...
for whats its worth, id have as little involvement with banks as i could possibly manage, difficult though it is.
the banking bit is very relevant, to their hypocrisy...
for whats its worth, id have as little involvement with banks as i could possibly manage, difficult though it is.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Agree with most of what Psycho says especially the stuff about house prices and renting, consider all the opportunity costs of buying a house - could you "invest" that money elsewhere and get a much better return?
Just to add some balance to what he says though, I have had nothing but a good experience with HSBC and they were more than happy to open a separate account for my betting related stuff.
Perhaps it was the managers time of the month when you saw them
Llyodds on the other hand were useless when I went in to open 3 Vantage accounts when I mentioned what I do. I gave up and just did it online.
Swings and roundabouts with the banks imo, often comes down to who you see and what mood they are in. I much prefer to do my dealings online these days - also means you don't get held up by the coffin dodgers
Just to add some balance to what he says though, I have had nothing but a good experience with HSBC and they were more than happy to open a separate account for my betting related stuff.
Perhaps it was the managers time of the month when you saw them
Llyodds on the other hand were useless when I went in to open 3 Vantage accounts when I mentioned what I do. I gave up and just did it online.
Swings and roundabouts with the banks imo, often comes down to who you see and what mood they are in. I much prefer to do my dealings online these days - also means you don't get held up by the coffin dodgers
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psycho040253
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:29 pm
Andy
You're right about HSBC. I'd always had a good relationship with them in the past. I was shocked to be honest. And their hypocrisy was a tad much.
Psycho
You're right about HSBC. I'd always had a good relationship with them in the past. I was shocked to be honest. And their hypocrisy was a tad much.
Psycho
Thanks for the detail re banks. An interesting one, I’ve also believed that if you can go to a bank and show regular monthly savings and earnings for a period of time then that should be good enough as any job, especially as sales is a gamble as the economy, clients or whatever can go pop at any point.
I try and live without banks as much as possible but I do want to own a property and be mortgage free in 10 years. That is the one sticking point in my mind with all of this trading. Time will tell I guess.
I try and live without banks as much as possible but I do want to own a property and be mortgage free in 10 years. That is the one sticking point in my mind with all of this trading. Time will tell I guess.
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jamesthetrader
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:41 am
Sharpsy - Can I give you some advice before you start worrying about getting a mortgage and being a full time trader.Sharpsy wrote:Im really starting to get the hang of this trading lark both on the football and horse markets (very early days on horses) but seeing the opportunities and taking them fairly well without the software, which is getting bought asap.
My question is, and I may have asked this before, how do you survive in the modern world with trading as an income? Im 26, live with mates so outgoings low. Got a mrs and soon enough it will get to that stage of moving in, owning a house etc and that is the one thing that puts me off trading FT. I earn a decent living through recruitment but hate recruitment and most who work within it.
You can earn decent money but the banks etc will dismiss any application I make for credit etc. Is there a clever way round? The only thing I can think of is going self employed a running x amount of trading income through a business so I have a taxable wage, that seems quite wasteful though.
Any ideas?
On the 13th Jan you posted that you had built a £250 bank upto £750 and were going to try and have a go at the horse racing pre race.....
£750 bank
Postby Sharpsy » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:32 am
"I started a trading challenge on football (in play markets) with a bank of £250 about two weeks ago and have grown it to £750 so far, that growth will continue on the football markets hopefully but what Im looking to do is test the horse markets before they go inplay.
What stakes/bank management would be advisable for this? I know Ill probably eat into my football winnings a little but see now as good as time as any to have a little bash."
I would have a serious think about it and make sure It's worthwhile before doing anything you may regret!? Not trying to be negative, just seen so many similar stories of people thinking they've cracked it after winning a few quid.
James, appreciate your concern. Dont worry I understand what you are saying. I’ve made a lot more from football trading, that specific £750 was part of a test I did on the football markets and I decided to then invest it into the horse market, hence why I was asking for advice on bank management for horses. Wasnt particularly clear in terms of my background. I have slightly more experience at trading than my post suggests, just not on the horse racing!! Ive not lost my marbles yet!! 
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
[quote="Sharpsy"An interesting one, I’ve also believed that if you can go to a bank and show regular monthly savings and earnings for a period of time then that should be good enough as any job, especially as sales is a gamble as the economy, clients or whatever can go pop at any point.[/quote]
In my reply I forgot to mention that although HSBC were good with open another account and have no issues with my trading from that view point they also would not touch me for a mortgage as they said despite the evidence I produced that trading just didn't cut it. I think buying outright is the only option these days more so since the removal of self certificate mortgages.
Another point you need to consider is the PC. If you hit a life time earnings of £250,000 will it still be viable to continue paying upto 60% of what you make each week. Yes £250,000 is a lot of money but it won't set you up for life. If you are able to earn say £100,000 before the PC, consider is it really worth it for perhaps just £40,000 a year of non guaranteed earnings.
You really need to consider your exit plan before you enter - much as you would with a trade.
In my reply I forgot to mention that although HSBC were good with open another account and have no issues with my trading from that view point they also would not touch me for a mortgage as they said despite the evidence I produced that trading just didn't cut it. I think buying outright is the only option these days more so since the removal of self certificate mortgages.
Another point you need to consider is the PC. If you hit a life time earnings of £250,000 will it still be viable to continue paying upto 60% of what you make each week. Yes £250,000 is a lot of money but it won't set you up for life. If you are able to earn say £100,000 before the PC, consider is it really worth it for perhaps just £40,000 a year of non guaranteed earnings.
You really need to consider your exit plan before you enter - much as you would with a trade.
Another point you need to consider is the PC. If you hit a life time earnings of £250,000 will it still be viable to continue paying upto 60% of what you make each week. Yes £250,000 is a lot of money but it won't set you up for life. If you are able to earn say £100,000 before the PC, consider is it really worth it for perhaps just £40,000 a year of non guaranteed earnings.
Personally if I thought I had the chance of making £250,000 then I'd take it and worry about the PC later, I earn minimum wage so it would take me a lifetime to make that kind of cash.
