I had enough of betfair a long time ago - when they introduced premium charges.I voted with my feet and went to Betdaq.I refuse to capitalise the first letter of betfair by the way (which,to be grammatically correct,one should) because that would be affording them respect - which they do not deserve.They are the market leaders in providing betting exchange services.Respect to them for doing that.Respect to them for bringing about a much needed change in the betting landscape.But shame on them for treating their customers in a disrespectful way.They don't care any more.The more that customers allow betfair to treat them like dirt,the more that betfair will treat their customers like dirt.It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.If betfair customers continue to accept betfair's level of service,then betfair's level of service will continue to deteriorate and the more liberties they will take.There's post after post on this forum complaining about betfair and their treatment of customers.Yet,nothing changes.In fact, I retract that statement.Things do change - betfair take more and more of their customer's profit and customers let them.Some people are paying as much as 60% of their profits to betfair.60% is extortionate.If customers allow betfair to take 60%,betfair will then push this up to 70%.If customers remain loyal,betfair will increase this still further.A couple of months ago,they claimed that their system malfunctioned.This resulted in betfair refusing to settle bets that their software had matched.Well,betfair's software problems are just that - bETFAIR'S - not their customer's.betfair screwed up,betfair resolve it and not by punishing their customers.
It's a very odd situation.betfair exist to provide a service, or at least they should.If they don't provide the service that customers want,then either they change or customers leave and get the service that they do want elsewhere. Customers decide what they want and the service provider(betfair) provides it.That's how normal business is conducted.In this situation,betfair decides what level of service they will provide for the customer and it's a case of take it or leave it.This is OK provided that betfair are paying customers.But they are not.It is customers who are paying betfair.Do customers get what they paid for?No.Customers pay for the privilege of being dictated to by betfair.This is a ridiculous state of affairs.
Customers complain about betfair but remain because of the lack of liquidity of Betdaq markets.Well,that's easily remedied.Leave betfair and go to Betdaq.One solution - two problems solved.If customers don't vote with their feet,betfair won't listen.If sufficient numbers of customers leave, betfair have a choice - listen to customers or go bust.It ain't rocket science ,or am I missing something?
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**CK bETFAIR
Come on J 745 is absoultly right. Your statement enhances people not to take action. I am a member of a good union who get results all the time, when management spit on them they spit back even harder and get results. Betfair is the management we the customers are the union. They need us to make them operate. I have been thinking this for a long time, i have a Betdaq account. Am fed up when i switch my pc on in the afternoon looking forward to some profits and you see the API dragging or going ape S**t, or you have a big order in and Freeze, and you have to get the bog roll out. There would be liquidity on Betdaq if all joined force, and reversed the power to Betdaq to manage. I havnt gone yet because i believe BA version software isnt as advance as this and the liquidity problemJohn Doe wrote:Nothing is going to change though is it? You hear people getting upset all the time but nothing changes.
So the problem is things can change it is we who have to change them, when i post bye am going to Betdaq i will see you over there with your order pusing me in the right direction
JJohn Doe wrote:Nothing is going to change though is it? You hear people getting upset all the time but nothing changes.
If more people take action and walk away, betfair won't have any option but to change.betfair act the way they do because people allow them to by staying.Once when betfair realise that they could lose their business by not changing they will have no option but to change.Once a customer is lost they will have to offer all sorts of inducements to get them back.And that will cost Betfair time,effort and MONEY - and maybe their business!! betfair aren't stupid.They have a business to protect and protect it they will.
As for BA:Their software is as good a piece of kit as I've seen.They have the processes in place in their betfair version.It can't be that difficult to modify it to be compliant with Betdaq.BA aren't a bunch of wallies.If they recognise the need to up the spec of their Betdaq software, that's what they will do.If they don't,someone else will.That's why they'll do it.In fact,if BA aren't already thinking along these lines, I'd be shocked.They read these forums as much as we do, if not more.They can see that betfair may not be able to push people around much more before there is open revolt and people walk away in droves.If this happens,BA will have understood that without a decent spec to their Betdaq software, they might lose out.
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mister man
- Posts: 363
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:10 pm
I agree withjohn doe and 74.5, this conversations been going on for at least 6 years to my knowledge.
Three years ago i moved to betdaq, after major outages at betfair caused me and many others a lot of in play anguish. Everyone was fed up and was going tomove to the purple ones. In the end I and only a few others did. The liquidity didnt pick up and so you shuffle back to betfair. Ive done this twice now and on both occasions many of those protesting have not moved, in the end you get the service you deserve, because the customer can always walk away, and in this case never really does.It really only needs about 10-20 big players maybe less to move and it will all change, but the big guys are using api software nearly all of which is for betfair and not daq, people like Angel, and the other providers could really change things if they had top quality daq versions for the major liquidity providers and others. Im not sure if its the licensing terms, fees, or something else at betdaq making this difficult.( which I doubt as its in their interests).
Even now with low liquidity someone with a bigger bank than me,could make money on daq just filling in the liquidity gaps..
Three years ago i moved to betdaq, after major outages at betfair caused me and many others a lot of in play anguish. Everyone was fed up and was going tomove to the purple ones. In the end I and only a few others did. The liquidity didnt pick up and so you shuffle back to betfair. Ive done this twice now and on both occasions many of those protesting have not moved, in the end you get the service you deserve, because the customer can always walk away, and in this case never really does.It really only needs about 10-20 big players maybe less to move and it will all change, but the big guys are using api software nearly all of which is for betfair and not daq, people like Angel, and the other providers could really change things if they had top quality daq versions for the major liquidity providers and others. Im not sure if its the licensing terms, fees, or something else at betdaq making this difficult.( which I doubt as its in their interests).
Even now with low liquidity someone with a bigger bank than me,could make money on daq just filling in the liquidity gaps..
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
I was just about to say the same as hgodden.
It would be nice if someone would take the exchanges model to the high street because i recon 95% of people i know who make bets wouldnt have a clue what a lay bet is. therefore its difficult for a competitor to come up and challenge them as the majority of the money floating arou, ifif not all, is traders money i would imagine.
It would be nice if someone would take the exchanges model to the high street because i recon 95% of people i know who make bets wouldnt have a clue what a lay bet is. therefore its difficult for a competitor to come up and challenge them as the majority of the money floating arou, ifif not all, is traders money i would imagine.
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Mr Undercover
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:22 pm
I agree with your frustration, Betfair's attitude towards traders is simply appalling to the point of utter contempt.
I agree with the point Peter made in an earlier thread that PC has been introduced predominently targeted at on course traders. These guys although very skilled can make ridiculous sums of money particular when horses fall and lose on the line etc where a 2sec+ picture delay is a completely un'FAIR' advantage... but instead bet'FAIR' in their desperation to improve profit have taken a blanket approach instead of address the issue in a fair way. We are customers they feel they can abuse or lose at their leisure as we simply have no alternative... how arrogant is that.
I think BA would replicate their functionality on BetDaq in a jiffy but the issue is the data is not available from the API. I'd like to help with this if I could as I think BetDaq would be receptive if presented with the appropriate numbers.
I also suspect - but others more knowledgable will correct me - the cross matching functionality on BF make it appear to have more liquidity than is actually present.
If it was possible to herd all traders to stage a one day boycott we'd find out how much we really mean to them but this takes co-ordination and anyone putting their head above the parapet...
I agree with the point Peter made in an earlier thread that PC has been introduced predominently targeted at on course traders. These guys although very skilled can make ridiculous sums of money particular when horses fall and lose on the line etc where a 2sec+ picture delay is a completely un'FAIR' advantage... but instead bet'FAIR' in their desperation to improve profit have taken a blanket approach instead of address the issue in a fair way. We are customers they feel they can abuse or lose at their leisure as we simply have no alternative... how arrogant is that.
I think BA would replicate their functionality on BetDaq in a jiffy but the issue is the data is not available from the API. I'd like to help with this if I could as I think BetDaq would be receptive if presented with the appropriate numbers.
I also suspect - but others more knowledgable will correct me - the cross matching functionality on BF make it appear to have more liquidity than is actually present.
If it was possible to herd all traders to stage a one day boycott we'd find out how much we really mean to them but this takes co-ordination and anyone putting their head above the parapet...
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mister man
- Posts: 363
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:10 pm
yes hgodden, and the punters go where the liquidity is, hence if the major players can move to daq, then many punters will follow.
I dont know the workings of the inside of the exchange industry enough, but i do know business and in most cases where you have a situation like this, very big almost monopoly company, with very unhappy customers,unwilling or unable to move, its usually a combination of vested intrests from the various parties involved who have their hands on the levers of power in the situation who keep it that way for an artificially long period. ergo the sharks be they players or owners or parasitic feeders from the great whites.
I dont know the workings of the inside of the exchange industry enough, but i do know business and in most cases where you have a situation like this, very big almost monopoly company, with very unhappy customers,unwilling or unable to move, its usually a combination of vested intrests from the various parties involved who have their hands on the levers of power in the situation who keep it that way for an artificially long period. ergo the sharks be they players or owners or parasitic feeders from the great whites.
When is the ladbrokes deal with betdaq due to start working? If they did recycle money through the betdaq exchange (big if) or another bookmaker did (bookies still dominate liquidity compared to any exchange) then it could bring about a big improvement to betdaq overnight.
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
I didnt realise betdaq were tying in with ladbrokes but i believe it would radically change exchanges. I het the girls in ladbrokes wouldnt be happy though with the punters running backwards and forwards
That's odd because 95% of the people that I know don't trust horses to win and are therefore layers.steven1976 wrote:I was just about to say the same as hgodden.
It would be nice if someone would take the exchanges model to the high street because i recon 95% of people i know who make bets wouldnt have a clue what a lay bet is. therefore its difficult for a competitor to come up and challenge them as the majority of the money floating arou, ifif not all, is traders money i would imagine.
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