are we still a fair country

[mister man]

That is all too true. This government has managed to conflate the problems faced by people who become benefits claimants through no fault of their own with the well-known mantra of scroungers fleecing the system. The net result is people with disabilities, even people in wheelchairs, being abused verbally and very occasionally physically too.

There are an awful lot of people out there who hold forth santimoniously about "scroungers" without bothering to wonder why people would pick a situation where every day is a struggle financially and often physically and/or mentally too.

Yet nobody stops to ask how it is that the DWP "loses" £1.5bn a year through incompetence and mistakes.

[payuppal]

More than 40% of the 2.8 million people receiving disability payments are getting them for 'mental and behavioural problems'.

I suspect that it's these people who are the target of the tests of ability to work.

[mister man]

actully per the gov watchdog

"this could see about one-fifth of the existing claimants lose eligibility, the government's own budgetary watchdog said"
THe DW+P themselves say they dont know how many, which sums up Chris Grayling the minister responsible perfectly,"clueless and doesnt care anyway"

[Iron]

TBH, I wonder whether getting someone with a mental illness might to work might sometimes benefit them, if it gets them out and about and shows them that they are capable of holding down a job, thereby boosting their confidence and self-esteem.

And what's the alternative? I'm not sure that watching daytime TV all day will do someone's mental health much good...

Jeff

More than 40% of the 2.8 million people receiving disability payments are getting them for 'mental and behavioural problems'.

I suspect that it's these people who are the target of the tests of ability to work.

[payuppal]

The problem is that there is a large group, over a million people, whose diagnosis is fairly subjective and who have not been tested regularly.

Depression for example figures heavily.

No one wants to see physically unable people targeted.

But there have been times in my life when I've been depressed about having to get up for work.

[mister man]

clinical depression and other forms of mental illness are not "im feeling a bit depressed and dont want to get up for work" they can be and frequently are life dibilitating conditions whilst they last.

[payuppal]

They can also be fairly easily simulated.

It really depends on whether one wants to assume that all of the 5.4 million people in receipt of benefits in this country are simply victims of a dastardly capitalist system and deserve everything they get from the state.

Or whether one thinks that some of them could do more to help themselves...

[mister man]

given that we currently have 0.5M job vacancies,it does suggest that only less than 10% could be helped into being productive, which sort of begs the question what society expects the remaining 4.9M to do.

[payuppal]

Perfect example of the assumption that the only way forward is into a job that someone else has created.

How did they create it?

Getting off their backside, maybe?

[mister man]

4.9M new sole traders, is certainly a novel proposal.

[Iron]

Quite.

You can wait around for someone to hand you an opportunity (and you may be waiting for some time!), or you can go out there and make things happen.

Jeff

Perfect example of the assumption that the only way forward is into a job that someone else has created.

How did they create it?

Getting off their backside, maybe?

[payuppal]

So where do new jobs come from?

Thin air?

They come from people starting businesses that grow.

Not from people sitting around moaning.

[superfrank]

I note the extraordinary decline in the nation's health over the last 40 years, given that we had 200,000 disabled in 1970.

we've probably still only got the same proportion of disabled people - the massive increase is just in the amount claiming to be disabled.

[mister man]

So where do new jobs come from?

Thin air?

They come from people starting businesses that grow.

Not from people sitting around moaning.

in all honesty and fairness you will not get 4M plus new business start ups and if you got 0.5M new business sole traders on top of filling the 0.5M vacancies, it still leaves 3.9M looking for work and or on benefits. I think calling them all moaners is a touch simplistic really. Approx 2.9M of them would and will be overjoyed to work.

[payuppal]

I'm pointing out that we seem to have at least 2 million more disabled people now than in the 1970s, and 2.5 million more than in the 1960's, despite life expectancy going up markedly.

Jobs, of the kind we need now, are created by people taking risks and starting businesses.

The days when ever more jobs were created in the public sector are over.

There's no money.