are we still a fair country

[Iron]

Most people have something they're good at. If they don't, they can get good at something. All you then need to do is make a living from what you're good at.

Good at repairing stuff? Offer a handiman service, and market it online and in supermarkets (or just approach random members of the public, or go door to door).

Good at making people laugh? Become a stand-up comic.

Good at baking cakes? Sell your cakes locally, online and via adverts in shops.

Facebook was started out by a guy with a vision, with very little money to begin with. Carphone Warehouse's Charles Dunstone started out with 17K. From small acorns... The problem is that not enough people have the 'get up and go' to say 'Sod it! Opportunity isn't going to come to me, so I'm going to go out there and find it, or die trying!'.

Jeff

[Iron]

PS Here are a few ways to cut the dole queues:

A. Scrap the rules that allow non-British EU citzens to work as employees over here. In the words of Gordon Brown, 'British jobs for British workers!'

B. Say 'to hell with civil liberties', and round up and deport all illegal immigrants, and stop taking people claiming asylum unless they have a genuine contribution to make to the UK economy. It could be done very quickly IMHO if there was the political will. All you'd need to do is make it so that the police could demand of anyone that they show their passport to prove they're British or have the right of abode here, and detain them if they're unable to do so (with a fast-track process if they are illegal immigrants). As an aside, if we stop taking in asylum seekers, it might mean that people are more likely to overthrow despotic regimes, rather than running away from them, so this is arguably a case of being cruel to be kind.

C. Scrap the minimum wage. If the cost of hiring an employee goes down, basic economics says that more employees are likely to be hired.

Jeff

[mister man]

I'm pointing out that we seem to have at least 2 million more disbled people now than in the 1970s, and 2.5 million more than in the 1960's, despite life expectancy going up markedly.

Jobs, of the kind we need now, are created by people taking risks and starting businesses.

The days when ever more jobs were created in the public sector are over.

There's no money.

the fig in 1970 was 200k its now 700k thats a big increase but not 2M, its 0.5M also as most of that increase is down to mental health claimants, and in 1970, those mentally ill before care in the community was introduced were not classed as disabaled, so the figures are really the same, the nations health is as it always was.
indeed our disabilty rates now are less than many countries, and our disabilty claimant rate for those in and out of work is similar to other nations.

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/20/61/46462479.pdf

[mugsgame]

Jeff,

Don't agree with your last post mate. I don't want to live in a Country that discriminates against people in that way.

In respect of scrapping the minium wage, it won't get more into work if you can get more on the dole. Besides the only people it will benefit will be individuals that exploit these people.

The systematic annihilation of our manufacturing base started with Thatcher. An economy built on financial services was always doomed. We need to make things, and them sell them. Easy. Jobs for jobs sake are pointless. We need quality jobs, jobs that you can support a family on. They are in very short supply and will continue to be, whatever happens.

[superfrank]

Jeff,

I totally agree with A and B, but not C - if a company cannot function without paying its workers a living wage then we can surely do without them.

[mister man]

i second everything mugsgame said

[Iron]

Don't agree with your last post mate. I don't want to live in a Country that discriminates against people in that way.

In terms of not allowing foreigners to work here unless it's in our national interest?

In respect of scrapping the minium wage, it won't get more into work if you can get more on the dole.

The solution, then, is to pay people less dole money, or force them into jobs.

Besides the only people it will benefit will be individuals that exploit these people.

If it helps us compete against countries like China when it comes to exports, it will benefit us all...

You talk about the importance of manufacturing. Do you think a minimum wage that's so high will help us to compete in the global economy?

Jeff

[Iron]

I disagree.

The less it costs to employ people, the more we can compete in the global economy.

And what's better - for a firm to pay someone a pittance, or for that person they would have employed were it not for the minimum wage to be sat on the dole, contributing nothing to society? I think it's a no brainer...

BTW, I disagree re. wages below the minimum wage not being 'living wages'. The minimum wage for someone aged 21 or above is £6.08. If I worked a 50 hour week and were paid £5.00 per hour, as a single bloke with no dependents living in the North West, I could live comfortably on £250 per week...

Jeff

if a company cannot function without paying its workers a living wage then we can surely do without them.

[mister man]

There are many hundreds of thousands of genuine people on benefits for whatever reason and reading ferru's and others comments on here one realises, the government has done a brilliant job of turning the public against these vulnerable, and mostly unfortunate people.

[Iron]

This may surprise you, but I've nothing against people on the dole. People find themselves unemployed for all sorts of reasons, and some people work very hard to get themselves back into work ASAP.

My concern, however, is that there are people who abuse the system, and that's something that needs to be addressed. I also think that we need to be careful about making being unemployed too attractive an option.

I'm sure even you would agree that there have been to be limits to what we pay the unemployed, and things we require the unemployed to do in return for their dole money...

Jeff

There are many hundreds of thousands of genuine people on benefits for whatever reason and reading ferru's and others comments on here one realises, the government has done a brilliant job of turning the public against these vulnerable, and mostly unfortunate people.

[mister man]

an attractive option!!!!

What is the cause of UK's unemployment benefits to be so low?
Why are the payments to the unemployed the most ungenerous out of all advanced economies in Europe? Is it because British people are selfish or is it because we allow our government to treat them badly?

In the following table you can see the amount of unemployment benefit a single person gets for a fortnight in that country.

Country Amount
Denmark £644.48
Belgium £644.42
Finland £464.50
Luxembourg £450.11
Sweden £392.45
France £390.31
Germany £363.56
Spain £340.32
Ireland £319.11
Netherlands £309.97
Austria £307.93
Switzerland £307.87
Norway £211.96
Greece £138.54
UK £130.73
Cyprus £122.22
Portugal £115.20
Iceland £112.73
Italy £80.66

In the second table you can see how much percentage of the GDP that country spends in looking after the unemployed:

as % of GDP
Belgium 3.4
Spain 2.6
Finland 2.2
Denmark 2
France 2
Germany 1.7
Sweden 1.6
Austria 1.6
Netherlands 1.4
Ireland 1.3
Portugal 1.2
Greece 1.1
Cyprus 1.1
Luxembourg 1
Switzerland 1
UK 0.6
Italy 0.5
Norway 0.4
Iceland 0.3


Why is Britain's share so tiny and why does the Uk's jobcentres engage in practices that humiliate and degrade the job-seeker?

[Iron]

I question those stats. I repeat the quote I cited earlier in this thread:

'Last year in Great Britain alone we spent £147 billion on benefit payments.

To put this into context, this is more than is spent on the NHS and schools combined.'

I could be wrong, but I imagine that comes to more than 0.6% of GDP.

So how much do you you think the unemployed should be paid?

Let's take me as an example. I live in the North West, and pay £280 per month in rent, which includes all bills, and have no children or other dependents. If I were made redundant, how much would I receive per month in benefits if you were PM?

Jeff

[mister man]

What is the cause of UK's unemployment benefits to be so low?
Why are the payments to the unemployed the most ungenerous out of all advanced economies in Europe? Is it because British people are selfish or is it because we allow our government to treat them badly?

In the following table you can see the amount of unemployment benefit a single person gets for a fortnight in that country.

Country Amount
Denmark £644.48
Belgium £644.42
Finland £464.50
Luxembourg £450.11
Sweden £392.45
France £390.31
Germany £363.56
Spain £340.32
Ireland £319.11
Netherlands £309.97
Austria £307.93
Switzerland £307.87
Norway £211.96
Greece £138.54
UK £130.73
Cyprus £122.22
Portugal £115.20
Iceland £112.73
Italy £80.66

In the second table you can see how much percentage of the GDP that country spends in looking after the unemployed:

as % of GDP
Belgium 3.4
Spain 2.6
Finland 2.2
Denmark 2
France 2
Germany 1.7
Sweden 1.6
Austria 1.6
Netherlands 1.4
Ireland 1.3
Portugal 1.2
Greece 1.1
Cyprus 1.1
Luxembourg 1
Switzerland 1
UK 0.6
Italy 0.5
Norway 0.4
Iceland 0.3


Why is Britain's share so tiny and why does the Uk's jobcentres engage in practices that humiliate and degrade the job-seeker?

[Iron]

Haven't you already said that?

Jeff

[Iron]

Like what?

Not sure I ever recall being humiliated when visiting the Job Centre...

Jeff

why does the Uk's jobcentres engage in practices that humiliate and degrade the job-seeker?