Have I got this right?

[74.5]

Hi All

First, betfair introduce Premium Charges of 40% on those who are successful.

Then, betfair refuse to pay out when a bot malfunctions and causes a user to exceed their credit limit (or so betfair claim).

Then, betfair withdraws funds from customer accounts and claim that they are avoiding Premium Charges.

Then, we find that betfair security is so lax that customers are finding that a third-party has gained access to their accounts and have withdrawn funds.

And on top of that, there are numerous betfair technical problems.

Yet, customers do not tell Betfair what a wunch of bankers they are. Instead of voting with their feet, customers remain loyal to Betfair.

Does that about sum up the situation?
74.5

[to75ne]

yep.

the loyalty bit is wrong. i doubt if anyone could truly be said to be loyal. if there was a viable alternative then betunfair would probably become very nice and understanding and caring and soft and fluffy; but until then, yer shagged.

[Euler]

That about sums it up

[superfrank]

and add to that cross-matching technology that skims off the top.

in the world of financial exchanges there isn't too much cross over, i.e. exchanges do not generally compete with each other in the same market (because the big money goes to the most liquid exchange and the other would die), but there are still many exchanges.

the problem we have in sports is that Betfair has a near monopoly in all sports markets.

it would be healthy if there were more exchanges specialising in different sports - that would create competition to an extent.

for example, i do not trade the S&P500 (CME) because it is dreadful value in terms of transaction costs, but i trade the DAX (Eurex) because it is very good value. 'not quite the same as racing v football i know.

[george]

as a trader doing this full time i look for 3 things

1) liquidity ( god bless betfair bots and the market makers )

2 ) a trading platform with a ladder ( thank you betangel )

3 ) because i trade only football i need at least 20 - 25 in-play markets every day

And for the moment betfair is the only company that can offer those things to me , the only thing i dont like and strongly disagree with betfair is the PC premium charge that targeted traders like me doing this full time

and to answer your question yes u got it right i will continue using betfair because there is no other company out there to offer those things to me

but what can i do stop and get a job ? i make more money doing this than any other job i had in the past.

thats all really

all the best

George

[Iron]

The notion that financial markets are unrelated, unlike Betfair markets, is incorrect. Forex markets are definitely related, for example - if a bot malfunctions and puts several billion into one Forex market, there will be a ripple effect across other markets (as otherwise arbsters would be able to make a guaranteed profit).

Jeff

in the world of financial exchanges there isn't too much cross over, i.e. exchanges do not generally compete with each other in the same market (because the big money goes to the most liquid exchange and the other would die), but there are still many exchanges.

[74.5]

as a trader doing this full time i look for 3 things

1) liquidity ( god bless betfair bots and the market makers )

2 ) a trading platform with a ladder ( thank you betangel )

3 ) because i trade only football i need at least 20 - 25 in-play markets every day

And for the moment betfair is the only company that can offer those things to me , the only thing i dont like and strongly disagree with betfair is the PC premium charge that targeted traders like me doing this full time

and to answer your question yes u got it right i will continue using betfair because there is no other company out there to offer those things to me

but what can i do stop and get a job ? i make more money doing this than any other job i had in the past.

thats all really

all the best

George

George
In one way I completely understand.You obviously have a gift for trading football matches and betfair are your only current realistic option.But when betfair jack up their 40% PC to 80%(for example),what then?What's your Plan B?I'm not for one second suggesting that betfair will do this.There again,given how they treat their customers,I'm not suggesting for one minute that they won't either.
The very best to you also.
74.5

[superfrank]

The notion that financial markets are unrelated, unlike Betfair markets, is incorrect. Forex markets are definitely related, for example - if a bot malfunctions and puts several billion into one Forex market, there will be a ripple effect across other markets (as otherwise arbsters would be able to make a guaranteed profit).
Jeff

you misunderstood my post.

i didn't say that financial markets are unrelated!

i was talking about exchanges and the markets they offer e.g. DAX futures are traded on the Eurex exchange - the CME could have a DAX futures market too if it wanted to, but it wouldn't make sense as there would be no liquidity.

my point is that there will always be a dominant exchange player for each market, and that direct competition doesn't make much sense (which is why BETDAQ will only ever get the scraps unless something radical happens). what they could do is to try to be the dominant player in certain markets - or new markets.

[LeTiss]

You're right, but I wish it was so simple

I moved money into Betdaq, but I predominately trade sport and it was hopeless. There just isn't the liquidity.
It's a chicken & egg scenario, and I need to earn regular money. I'm not a martyr, I'm not going to sit there offering money in the hope others will join in 6 months

Yes, I wasn't paying PC, but the money I was earning there, was less than BF after deductions

[74.5]

Then betfair have their customers by the cohones and there's nothing that their customers can do about it.betfair know it & their customers know it.Little wonder then that betfair do as they will.betfair are probably reading this and wetting themselves because they can't stop laughing.What a sorry state of affairs.
74.5

[superfrank]

the only thing that could challenge Betfair would be a superior exchange (in terms of speed, reliability and fairness) in conjunction with superior value (for punters which would make a significant proportion of big hitters make the switch).

but the liquidity has to be there before the punters would switch, and traders follow punters.

it would require a massive investment, some clever big money seeding (to get started) and would probably have to run at a loss for quite a while to get established.

i can't it happening except if someone took over BETDAQ and was serious about taking on Betfair - but then they'd probably get greedy too and we'd be back to square one.

i mentioned this before, but what would be ideal would be a betting exchange that was run as a co-operative for the benefit of its members (punters and traders) and for the associated sports. and no shareholders (trying to squeeze every last drop of short-termist profit) taking all the profits for sitting on their fat @rses!

edit: if we (traders) and punters and maybe racing itself got together and raised enough money then we could buy BETDAQ (or even Betfair!) and go from there. a flat rate of commission for all and no pc.

[74.5]

the only thing that could challenge Betfair would be a superior exchange (in terms of speed, reliability and fairness) in conjunction with superior value (for punters which would make a significant proportion of big hitters make the switch).

but the liquidity has to be there before the punters would switch, and traders follow punters.

it would require a massive investment, some clever big money seeding (to get started) and would probably have to run at a loss for quite a while to get established.

i can't it happening except if someone took over BETDAQ and was serious about taking on Betfair - but then they'd probably get greedy too and we'd be back to square one.

i mentioned this before, but what would be ideal would be a betting exchange that was run as a co-operative for the benefit of its members (punters and traders) and for the associated sports. and no shareholders (trying to squeeze every last drop of short-termist profit) taking all the profits for sitting on their fat @rses!

edit: if we (traders) and punters and maybe racing itself got together and raised enough money then we could buy BETDAQ (or even Betfair!) and go from there. a flat rate of commission for all and no pc.

Superfrank
Nice post.I agree with about 95.673% of your post except the bit about either someone else entering the market or someone serious taking over Betdaq.If that happens,then there would be competition and punters and traders would get a better deal.betfair would have to shape up or lose business.At least,that's the theory.betfair,IMHO,are slowly cutting their own throats.The worse they behave and the more that they mistreat their customers,the more likely it is that a new entrant will come into the market,take them on and win.As an aside - I wonder which vaginal deodorant betfair use?
74.5