1 master account 2 seperate accounts matched amounts

[steven1976]

Hi Guys,

I have asked my question in 2 other threads but without reply and therefore Ive started a new thread.

I read that you are allowed up to 10 accounts on betfair linked to one master account. If this is correct can i use 2 or more different accounts to selfmatch my own bets on the exchange and do they show as matched amounts in the charts . If so would I only pay a commission on the master account?

Steve

[Euler]

As I understand it you only get given a sub or master account if they decide you are worth it. I don't know many people who have them so I'd suggest you establish if you will be offered one first.

If you self match on one account it doesn't show in the market, but if you self match across two different account it will. But there is no point in doing this if you pay commission on both accounts.

I'd imagine Betfair's systems are not set up to recognise the fact the accounts are related and not charge commission. That would be of too much benefit to the customer and reduce their overall commission.

[steven1976]

Euler wrote "I'd imagine Betfair's systems are not set up to recognise the fact the accounts are related and not charge commission. That would be of too much benefit to the customer and reduce their overall commission."

I agree it would be to much benefit to the customers as you would be able to create an impression (false at times) of a market and where money has been matched. It was an avenue I was interested in exploring as I trade on some weak (low liquidity) markets that I think it could have been useful.

The reason I got the idea was because I always get the feeling playing at the front of the queues on the UK horse racing it is a one on one battle with a market maker rather than a general market who can push the odds against new money into the market and when i scratch my trade it doesnt show as money matched but when they scratch their trades it shows matched money.

As for betfair only offering multiple accounts to customers they believe are worth it, I guess thats another nail in betfairs coffin for customer service.

[Euler]

They tend to offer higher levels of service to consistant losers, rather than consistant winners.

[steven1976]

It will certainly be interesting to clarify if commissions are needed to be paid on both accounts or just the master account. If anyone has 2 accounts could they please test and confirm.

Steve

[Euler]

Unless you have been offered some form of account management, you will pay commission on both accounts and both will show up in the matched bet volume.

I don't know if the master / sub account condition makes any difference but I suspect not. I don't have master and sub accounts.

[steven1976]

I think some customers must get some form of account management and preferential treatment then. I saw the other day Smarkets said some of their main market makers off set their bets on betfair. If smarkets only charge 2% or less on its markets would it be possible to offset on betfair profitable for the long term if they were premium payers?

[xitian]

I'm almost certain anyone can have multiple Betfair accounts, but you must use a different funding method (such as different credit/debit card) for each account. After you open the second account I would highly recommend you notifying Betfair and asking them to link the accounts, otherwise they may/will suspect you of charge avoidance. Just do a search in Google for "multiple betfair accounts" if there isn't already a thread in this forum about it.

For anyone with a personal API subscription (such as myself) you can create another account as above, but you have a control panel to link secondary accounts as subaccounts, so you don't need to ask Betfair to do it. I have 3 accounts (1 master, 2 sub) in total and use them to track performance of different strategies. Betfair have never asked any questions about it.

Here are some details of how the accounts are treated as far as I know:
- Commission charged separately (I've never tried matching across accounts, but I expect it would act as if the two accounts were independent, ie. matched volume showing, commission charged to both).
- Premium charge is calculated from commission and gross profits of all accounts added together.
- Points are collected independently on each account, so one account will have a bigger/smaller commission discount than others.
- Transactions added together from all accounts (i.e. with 3 accounts you do NOT get 3 times as many transactions/queries per hour/min).

Let me know if I've missed anything.

[andyfuller]

I don't have master and sub accounts.

I always assumed you had them Peter so as to keep different sports separate for record keeping. When you have in the past posted PnL's on the blog they are for one sport or another but not two or more sports but on the forum on those days you have been talking about trading other sports. I always wished I could in the past have refined my BF PnL's down to specific sports - how do you manage it?

Also how do you have enough data allowance to run your bots on football say on a Saturday whilst you are also trading the racing?

I have two accounts, one is an old one I totally forgot about but when I get chance I will give it a bash trading across the two accounts and see what happens. They are both linked I just check on my PC statement.

[Tobedotty]

I don't have master and sub accounts.

I always assumed you had them Peter so as to keep different sports separate for record keeping. When you have in the past posted PnL's on the blog they are for one sport or another but not two or more sports but on the forum on those days you have been talking about trading other sports. I always wished I could in the past have refined my BF PnL's down to specific sports - how do you manage it?

Also how do you have enough data allowance to run your bots on football say on a Saturday whilst you are also trading the racing?

I have two accounts, one is an old one I totally forgot about but when I get chance I will give it a bash trading across the two accounts and see what happens. They are both linked I just check on my PC statement.

On betfair if you go to "my account" then "betting profit&loss" it handily seperates your profits/losses by sport automatically.

[sweetybt]

I think Peter means he does not have a master account, but of course has several accounts of equal status.

I think Andy means how do you seperate different strategies on the same sport if you only have one account.

[andyfuller]

Makes sense, like I have 2 accounts under the same entity but totally seperate, meaning use one for football and one for horses etc. Does then give you 2 lots of data allowance?

[sweetybt]

I have three acounts and believe data allowance is spread across all three as is PC but discount rate is not.

[PeterLe]

Makes sense, like I have 2 accounts under the same entity but totally seperate, meaning use one for football and one for horses etc. Does then give you 2 lots of data allowance?

Andy
I have three accounts too and the data allowance is still 20 across them all combined unfortunately..as is the PC.. (Crazy why the discount rate isn't the same across all accounts?, all one sided by Betfair as usual).
I sometimes have two instances open the desktop (say when the horses and football is in play), and might only go to the football when a goal has been scored for instance. All I do is leave the refresh unticked on the football one and if a goal is scored I do the opposite. I'm in and out fairly quickly on the football and can quickly switch back to the horses.

There was another thread on here about being able to fire two commands in simultaneous (which, depending upon the command is not possible), but you can do it if you have two instances open running at 10 req/sec..but I find that 10 reqs is a bit too low..if only we had 30 to play with!..(Sorry I digressed a bit there!)
Regards
Peter

[steven1976]

Thanks for all your replies guys on this thread. I have been looking into it in more detail and I came across a thread on betfairs forum which someone states that Bettingpromotion do not have to pay any commission on their trades for acting as a market maker and bringing liquidity to betfair markets. Does anyone know if this is true that they pay zero commission and if so are they the only ones outside of betfair that can do this?

This is the link i read it on
http://community.betfair.com/general_be ... ket-makers

If this is true it would answer my questions as to why I feel at the front of the queues some market makers are able to set the market up and then as and when money arrives move either way. It could also answer the type of entity who the bomber is if they can quickly just crash through their own money several ticks to leave someone in a losing position?