Betfair not turning race inplay - carl 15:00

[to75ne]

mine have been settled. i have come out ok(about £15 up). my backs placed/taken and the counter lays at sp have all been cancelled.

they were all placed approx no later than
15:20:20 as far as i can tell just by having a quick look at log.

came out ok, gutted for anyone who as been done over.

according to their web site

HORSE RACING IN-PLAY MARKETS ISSUE -...
Report•Quote Betfair Customer Services • March 22, 2012 3:18 PM GMT
Update

The 3pm at Carlisle and the 3.05 at Wolverhampton were affected by the technical issues.

Bets placed after the official off times will be voided as per our terms and conditions; the BSP will be manually reconciled and settled shortly.

Betfair would like to apologise for these problems and the inconvenience this may have caused.

corrction 15:58 it was settled for £1.89, seems they have cancelled everything after 15:00 bang on in my case.

[Euler]

Off I go to IBAS it seems - market showing as settled now for me but the bet has not been settled

I did fear that would happen, sorry to see that. Please keep us in touch with any progress and outcome. Let me know if there is anything we can do to help, it sounds like you have it covered though.

[andyfuller]

I now know why my bet was voided - still waiting on Betfair to explain their reason behind it.

In the process of working it out I have found what I consider a flaw in the Betfair system that given the right circumstances could be exploited.

I won't go in to details yet as I want to save that for any case I bring against them but will in the future.

I do think it could be of interest to others who have been shafted in the past when something like today has happened so will definitely come back to the forum about it.

But I have no doubt that my bet should have stood and feel confident that any ruling IBAS were to make on the case would be in my favour as there was nothing else I could do but what I did.

[to75ne]

My take SP bet has now vanished but confident it will reappear as an SP bet - I called them and have it on tape saying my bets was still there as an SP bet, plus all the screen grabs so confident I will get my money back.

Sorry to hear about your loss Jimrobo!

What I don't get is why they can't rewind the market to the position it was in at the off.

Why should someone who has put a closing in trade that is set to take SP but punished because BF didn't suspend the market at the off and which allowed the bet to be matched after the off and thus be voided.

andy taking screen shots is an excellent idea, but is something that i often forget to do.

stopped trading for a while and an idea struck me to auto record them with an autohotkey script, to snap the screen every 3 secs.knocked one up; seems to work er treat. hope i will never need to use the grabs as evidence.

thanks for sticking a very useful idea in my head.

[JollyGreen]

I had a lucky escape because this was a race where I wanted to lay the front two in the market. I simply placed my orders and forgot about the race, I was not even watching it...I was actually cooking!

I came back to read about the carnage and my sympathy goes to JimRobo and Andy! It really is pathetic the way Betfair constantly have these issues!

Only yesterday Andy and I were talking about an issue that Betfair appeared to have handled very well!

JG

[to75ne]

jollygreen, that was lucky. hopefully a good omen for this years selections for the grand national; dont forget to post them

[spreadbetting]

I now know why my bet was voided - still waiting on Betfair to explain their reason behind it.

In the process of working it out I have found what I consider a flaw in the Betfair system that given the right circumstances could be exploited.

I won't go in to details yet as I want to save that for any case I bring against them but will in the future.

I do think it could be of interest to others who have been shafted in the past when something like today has happened so will definitely come back to the forum about it.

But I have no doubt that my bet should have stood and feel confident that any ruling IBAS were to make on the case would be in my favour as there was nothing else I could do but what I did.

Somehow, I'm guessing you amended the bet to put it out of the firing line, Andy

Keep us up to date how it goes, they seem to be very hit and miss when it comes to these situations. Did you speak to anyone with any power? or just the call centre staff?

[andyfuller]

Can any one confirm if they have ever had a 'Take SP' bet allowed to stand when a market has not been taken ir?

This is not a SP bet but a bet that has been set to take SP at the off.

Cheers.

[spreadbetting]

It's happened plenty of times in the past , a lot depends on if the BSP was manually reconciled on how they refund/settle.

Does anyone know the off time for the 3:00 or any sites that give that info?

[andyfuller]

Can any one confirm if they have ever had a 'Take SP' bet allowed to stand when a market has not been taken ir?

This is not a SP bet but a bet that has been set to take SP at the off.

Cheers.

I should have said:

Can any one confirm if they have ever had a 'Take SP' bet that was not matched before the market was suspended and not placed inplay, allowed to stand?

They are arguing on the phone that the bet I placed despite clearly being placed before the off and set to take sp before the off can not be allowed to stand because bets set to take sp can't be included when the start is missed and the market not turned inplay.

Which I said it utter rubbish. And asked for the case to be escalated back to the market operations team and for them to get back to me.

I have now dug out the T&C that applies to this point they are using as a get out and they are going against their T&C as it states:

" If the SP reconciliation process is undertaken later than scheduled (i.e. after the event has started) and Betfair determines that a material event has occurred (this will generally mean that the event is not turned in-play), the SP will be determined based solely on SP bets (and ‘At In-play: Take SP’ bets which are unmatched when Betfair suspends the relevant market), placed before the 'off'. This means that ‘At In-play: Take SP’ bets matched after the off, will be made void and not included in the reconciliation process. In addition SP bets placed after the 'off' will be voided. However, if the SP reconciliation process is undertaken later than scheduled but Betfair determines that no material event has occurred, all bets will stand."

Which means my bet that was placed and set to take sp before the race started should have stood as it remained unmatched at the time Betfair suspended the relevant market.

Or am I going mad and have I misunderstood that T&C?

[andyfuller]

Somehow, I'm guessing you amended the bet to put it out of the firing line, Andy

Yes that is exactly what I did as I know from the past when a bet is matched it would then be voided so my only option was to ensure that the bet was not matched before they suspended the market - had the horse traded at 1.01 I would be screwed as I would not have been able to avoid having the bet matched.

Edit: I should state I also understand all the implications of altering the price of a bet.

[mugsgame]

I had a block of bets placed at 3:00:00 3 seconds later I changed the bet persistance to 'Take SP". The race went off at 3:00:27

I had 1 of the bets voided, King of Thorns - which led before the race was suspended.

Even though there we several unmatched bets which I had changed the persistance to "Take SP".

I have spoken to BF. They say that the other bets were "taken up with the exchange" ????? and that because my bet on KofT was matched after the off time it is voided. I said "hold on I asked to "take SP".
"All change of persistance bets are cancelled/voided"

I should say that the reason for this is "it has to be done manually and it is very time consuming"

How fair is that then?

Andy, this would fit in to what has happened to you too?


My confidence / trust in Betfair is at rock bottom.

[andyfuller]

Mugs - not 100% following you.

Were the Take SP bets that were not matched before the suspension allowed to stand and settled at SP?

The one on K of T that was a take sp but was matched before the suspension was voided?

[andyfuller]

andy taking screen shots is an excellent idea, but is something that i often forget to do.

I would also highly recommend recording all phone calls you have with BF when dealing with disputes - I have found this very handy when dealing with other companies in the past.

BF should have a recording as well but I don't trust them enough for that not to go missing!

Also letting someone know that you are recording their call and will use it as evidence if needed in a dispute usually cuts the B.S. out from them and makes them take you more seriously - today in BF's case that didn't happen and I am still waiting to hear back again - my guess is they are trying to figure some sort of get out as they have already admitted my bet was placed before the off and set to take sp before the off so can't use that and their current reason is no good either

[mugsgame]

To add to my last post:
What they are saying is that if the modified bet (from Lay to take sp) was matched before the suspension. Even tough you asked for SP if not matched - tough shit baby. For me this is clear. If there is a problem and the race is not suspended on time then all bets revert to where they were at the official off time. You can't have some matched and some not. That is ridiculous.

My point is that is their fault not mine. This is nothing to do with "fairness' and everything to do with how difficult it is for them to settle the market correctly.

There is a point of law here. Like I just explained to the Bf rep. You have to have rules, but you can't keep interpreting them to suit yourselves. I will take this up if IBAS.