very annoying
Edit :
just noticed that you said that it was Not matched before the suspension, so obviously a different issue to what ive encountered.
Betfair not turning race inplay - carl 15:00
Ive had bets in the past that were set to be taken at s.p but were matched after the official off time by another punter and then voided as it was not turned in play.
very annoying
Edit :
just noticed that you said that it was Not matched before the suspension, so obviously a different issue to what ive encountered.
very annoying
Edit :
just noticed that you said that it was Not matched before the suspension, so obviously a different issue to what ive encountered.
Last edited by freddy on Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Spreadbettingspreadbetting wrote:It's happened plenty of times in the past , a lot depends on if the BSP was manually reconciled on how they refund/settle.
Does anyone know the off time for the 3:00 or any sites that give that info?
The race went off at 15:30:24
74.5
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andyfuller
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- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
At what point did you modify your bet to take SP - before the race started or after?mugsgame wrote:To add to my last post:
What they are saying is that if the modified bet (from Lay to take sp) was matched before the suspension. Even tough you asked for SP if not matched - tough shit baby. For me this is clear. If there is a problem and the race is not suspended on time then all bets revert to where they were at the official off time. You can't have some matched and some not. That is ridiculous.
My point is that is their fault not mine. This is nothing to do with "fairness' and everything to do with how difficult it is for them to settle the market correctly.
There is a point of law here. Like I just explained to the Bf rep. You have to have rules, but you can't keep interpreting them to suit yourselves. I will take this up if IBAS.
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spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
What's their current reason Andy? Is it to do with you amending bets after the off?
I'd leave it a while if I were you , you won't be the only ones caught up and complaining. Cost me around £500 but I'm quessing it'll eventually get settled correctly and if not I'll chase it up then as I have all bet refs and relevant times. In the past it's taken over a week but they did manually resettle and luckily I kept the email from them so the precedent's been set.
If you look into your Betting History under lapsed bets and your bets are showing as SP and placed pre off they should get picked up when/if they come back to do a manual settlement.
I'd leave it a while if I were you , you won't be the only ones caught up and complaining. Cost me around £500 but I'm quessing it'll eventually get settled correctly and if not I'll chase it up then as I have all bet refs and relevant times. In the past it's taken over a week but they did manually resettle and luckily I kept the email from them so the precedent's been set.
If you look into your Betting History under lapsed bets and your bets are showing as SP and placed pre off they should get picked up when/if they come back to do a manual settlement.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
The guy I am dealing with is now due to call me back tomorrow again after take it back to market operations for a second time.
He said my bet was voided because it was unmatched before the off and as such they can only take account of actual SP bets.
I asked for him to read me the T&C that said this. He read out the one I posted previously but stopped before:
"(and ‘At In-play: Take SP’ bets which are unmatched when Betfair suspends the relevant market)"
I got him to read that out and he then struggled to get this head around what I was saying.
He then tried to pass the buck on to me saying you will have to take it to IBAS, I said I will but not before you give me a valid reason to void my bet.
To cut a long story short he is now tying to use the fact that I moved the bet around to ensure it was not matched as the reason for it being voided.
One of the the flaws in Betfair system is that this records this as a new bet but it is actually just a modification of the initial bet. As you see when you get the error code from the API saying a "bet can not be modified".
So he is off back to Market Ops for a new excuse....
This time I am close to stopping on Betfair so am more than happy to keep on going with my complaint - the line I got once before when I complained about a separate issue that I am welcome to close my account won't work this time on me
He said my bet was voided because it was unmatched before the off and as such they can only take account of actual SP bets.
I asked for him to read me the T&C that said this. He read out the one I posted previously but stopped before:
"(and ‘At In-play: Take SP’ bets which are unmatched when Betfair suspends the relevant market)"
I got him to read that out and he then struggled to get this head around what I was saying.
He then tried to pass the buck on to me saying you will have to take it to IBAS, I said I will but not before you give me a valid reason to void my bet.
To cut a long story short he is now tying to use the fact that I moved the bet around to ensure it was not matched as the reason for it being voided.
One of the the flaws in Betfair system is that this records this as a new bet but it is actually just a modification of the initial bet. As you see when you get the error code from the API saying a "bet can not be modified".
So he is off back to Market Ops for a new excuse....
This time I am close to stopping on Betfair so am more than happy to keep on going with my complaint - the line I got once before when I complained about a separate issue that I am welcome to close my account won't work this time on me
That is exactly what has happened.andyfuller wrote:Mugs - not 100% following you.
Were the Take SP bets that were not matched before the suspension allowed to stand and settled at SP?
The one on K of T that was a take sp but was matched before the suspension was voided?
To clarify.
I had 9 bets "take Sp"
2 were settled at SP - Stanley Bridge and Lucky Sunny
6 were matched - between 3:00:00 and when it was suspended
1 was voided.
The Lucky Sunny bet was in the same batch of take SP as the voided bet, placed at exactly the same time.
Major inconsistency there.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Mugs - I know what you are saying and they should have to roll it back to the off time for all bets as that is the only proper way to do it but the T&C do state what has happened to your bet will mean it won't be included.
Your others that were unmatched after the off and by the time they suspended did stand and were settled at SP, correct?
The issue with mine is that their systems treat a modified bet as a new bet, but if you don't modify it and just let it be matched it will be voided as happened with one of yours - so you only chance is that you don't modify and pray to god the bet is not matched before they finally get around to suspending the market.
They need a whole rework of their system - it is the only option and would avoid all this bollox we have to go through each time they cock up.
Your others that were unmatched after the off and by the time they suspended did stand and were settled at SP, correct?
The issue with mine is that their systems treat a modified bet as a new bet, but if you don't modify it and just let it be matched it will be voided as happened with one of yours - so you only chance is that you don't modify and pray to god the bet is not matched before they finally get around to suspending the market.
They need a whole rework of their system - it is the only option and would avoid all this bollox we have to go through each time they cock up.
My 9 bets were all modified to take sp at the same time.
They should all be treated the same - all voided or all settled at sp. All I want is constancy. I am a customer, it's not my fault their system goes wrong. Why should I be out of pocket because their equipment fails?
They should all be treated the same - all voided or all settled at sp. All I want is constancy. I am a customer, it's not my fault their system goes wrong. Why should I be out of pocket because their equipment fails?
Well This could be a very serious flaw with the take S.P option then 
.
It a very logical thing to do , moving the bet out of the action when the market is not turned in-play, especially when you know Betfair will void bets matched by other punter after the offical off time grrr .
.It a very logical thing to do , moving the bet out of the action when the market is not turned in-play, especially when you know Betfair will void bets matched by other punter after the offical off time grrr
.
Last edited by freddy on Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
I once had exactly the same problem. I had a take SP lay bet and moved it around to make sure I didn't got a match. A SP price was settled, but my bet was voided.
Their ridiculous explanations were just a way not to pay. In the end, they did pay (a small amount) but kept it clear and loud that they weren't recognizing their flaw, is was just to be seen as a gesture of good will...
Their ridiculous explanations were just a way not to pay. In the end, they did pay (a small amount) but kept it clear and loud that they weren't recognizing their flaw, is was just to be seen as a gesture of good will...
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
I fully agree, the system is fundamentally flawed and tbh I don't really care about the money I lost although it is a decent amount. My hope would be that IBAS can somehow force them to change the way they deal with these situations as their system is flawed on many levels because they have not been able to put the infrastructure in to do with it correctly.
What is needed is a proper roll back operating system - it is the only fair thing for all parties. They should be forced to implement this.
What is needed is a proper roll back operating system - it is the only fair thing for all parties. They should be forced to implement this.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Your only option is to leave the bet untouched and pray to god etc that someone doesn't match you Bet. Move it and it will be voided, leave it and let it get matched, it will be voided. So prayer is your only option!mugsgame wrote:Sorted
the rules is the rules
I was unlucky. I will know next time
As betfair are allowed to operate in their own markets it could be argued that they could on purpose if they so wished match your bet and thus make it a void bet so that your bet did not count in the SP process so as to ensure a favourable outcome to the SP for them if they had multiples mounting up on the selection.
I am not saying they do this but the current system leaves this and numerous other options open.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
I have already been offered the goodwill 'bribe' payment. This time I have no interest in accepting it as I have nothing basically to loose as I am quitting Betfair soon anyway.CaerMyrddin wrote:I once had exactly the same problem. I had a take SP lay bet and moved it around to make sure I didn't got a match. A SP price was settled, but my bet was voided.
Their ridiculous explanations were just a way not to pay. In the end, they did pay (a small amount) but kept it clear and loud that they weren't recognizing their flaw, is was just to be seen as a gesture of good will...