I was just reading this post by Euler on the analysis of how his money was matched in yesterday's 2 runner Ayr race... viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5461&p=42972#p42972
Every single match, partial match and unmatched bet generates a transaction record in Betfair's database - i don't know how many transactions there are on an average day but i suspect it must be in the tens of millions at least.
It's no wonder i guess that Betfair's systems sometimes struggle to cope.
When trading futures the speed and refresh rate is lightening fast (limited only by your own ping i suspect), but because futures are traded in contracts and not cash amounts the number of transactions generated will be tiny in comparison. e.g. the number of contracts traded daily on the DAX is between 100,000 and 200,000.
HFT must generate a fair number of transactions as the bots enter and cancel bets, but i still reckon that Betfair handles far more transactions than the futures exchanges (who probably have much more to spend on technical infrastructure too).
One way Betfair could reduce the number of transactions to improve performance would be to increase the minimum bet size, but i suspect that would discourage too many punters.
Transactions generated by betting activity
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andyfuller
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In 2007:mugsgame wrote:Betfair claim that they handle more transactions than the London stock exchange
- Betfair matches more than 5 million transactions a day and serves over 4 billion page requests per week;
- The company does 15 times as many transactions as the London Stock Exchange per day, processesing up to 1,000 transactions per second. Unlike the LSE, settlement is immediate;
- Betfair has more than 1,000,000 registered customers, and £2,000 a minute is deposited on to the site;
- Nearly half of page impressions to online gaming sites worldwide come to Betfair.
Source: http://www.scmagazine.com.au/Feature/94 ... asher.aspx
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andyfuller
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- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Betfair used to handle even more transactions a few years ago, it may be that growth has caught this up again but the numbers used to be massive. The volumes were so high they had to cap usage as the load was getting out of control.
An arms race developed to call their servers faster and faster and it toppled the site on a few occasions. But now they have strict limits on usage and cache price data so its not possible for anybody to be faster than anybody else and the arms race was halted. I guess therefore the load is much less than it used to be. Some of this was probably driven by the bottom line as well.
An arms race developed to call their servers faster and faster and it toppled the site on a few occasions. But now they have strict limits on usage and cache price data so its not possible for anybody to be faster than anybody else and the arms race was halted. I guess therefore the load is much less than it used to be. Some of this was probably driven by the bottom line as well.
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andyfuller
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I know what you meant but just to be clear you can still get data faster than someone else, but no one can get it faster than the limits Betfair set.Euler wrote:An arms race developed to call their servers faster and faster and it toppled the site on a few occasions. But now they have strict limits on usage and cache price data so its not possible for anybody to be faster than anybody else and the arms race was halted. I guess therefore the load is much less than it used to be. Some of this was probably driven by the bottom line as well.
The other thing that didn't help the whole situation was the ridiculous situation where you could offset your Premium Charge against data usage and transaction charges. This actually encouraged people to spank the Betfair servers more as it meant less PC to pay!
This was rectified after a year I think it was when Betfair reviewed the first PC.
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Will Sharpe
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the DAX is a contract traded on EUREX derivatives exchange.Average daily volume on EUREX ~ 11 million contracts per day. The number of transactions is of course less. I think NASDAQ ~172 million trades per day.superfrank wrote:I was just reading this post by Euler on the analysis of how his money was matched in yesterday's 2 runner Ayr race... viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5461&p=42972#p42972
Every single match, partial match and unmatched bet generates a transaction record in Betfair's database - i don't know how many transactions there are on an average day but i suspect it must be in the tens of millions at least.
It's no wonder i guess that Betfair's systems sometimes struggle to cope.
When trading futures the speed and refresh rate is lightening fast (limited only by your own ping i suspect), but because futures are traded in contracts and not cash amounts the number of transactions generated will be tiny in comparison. e.g. the number of contracts traded daily on the DAX is between 100,000 and 200,000.
HFT must generate a fair number of transactions as the bots enter and cancel bets, but i still reckon that Betfair handles far more transactions than the futures exchanges (who probably have much more to spend on technical infrastructure too).
One way Betfair could reduce the number of transactions to improve performance would be to increase the minimum bet size, but i suspect that would discourage too many punters.
Believe it or not, their up time is in a different universe compared to Betfair
And oh, by the way, they all provide real time streaming quotes, with a lot more information than simply the price of the traded instrument.
But then again they are competing for business....
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superfrank
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Eurex yes, of which FDAX is just one of hundreds of products traded... http://www.eurexchange.com/trading/products_en.html
Eurex is a particularly good exchange - their commissions are significantly less than the US exchanges.
Indeed. These exchanges have grown their business by increasing volume (by reducing transaction costs and opening up the exchanges to more and more players). Betfair could learn a lot from that business model! Just imagine if derivatives exchanges proposed a tax on the profits of successful traders - they'd be laughed out of town.Will Sharpe wrote:But then again they are competing for business....
Eurex is a particularly good exchange - their commissions are significantly less than the US exchanges.
I am amazed they have the audacity to compare themselves to the London Stock Exchange. Relative to a regulated financial exchange Betfair is different and substandard in several aspects....
Aside from vastly superior performance the regulated financial exchanges do not directly compete on their own exchanges as BF do. Whilst market makers are compensated and or granted priority with the order allocation algorithms the exchanges do not participate in their own liquidity. Derivative exchanges show implied prices derived from their inter or intra contract spreads and distribute them to the favour of all participants by transparent means.
BF cross match (ie imply prices) but, and i stand to be corrected, retain profits from any slight arbitrage situation. For example Red Rum & Shergar cross match at 2.00 when E'or was trading 1000. If E'or wins, who won on the losing Red Rum & losing Shergar bets? BF do unless they actually lay E'or at a price of 1000 in <£2 perhaps? They also do not distribute the implied prices via their API and as such are not transparant.
Governments & companies require funds to be raised, exposures hedged and public monies invested. Financial exchanges are therefore a necessity and the exchanges transact many trillions of dollars worth per annum.
Betfair however has no such reason to exist and as such must heavily invest in attracting new losers else eventually see liquidity dry up. In this they are akin to all spread betting companies but are actually worse off due to their flawed revenue model of derving fees from winning bets only. I shall explain - winning traders become more sophisticated & efficient. A trader winning £100k per annum may have done so initially by winning £1m and losing £900k thus generating fees on £1.9m. However as he matures this dynamic alters makes his £100k efficiently with £150k winning bets and £50k losing bets. So he still makes the same £100k but only generates fees on £200k. Betfair must replenish the same £100k from new losers but now with only a fraction of the fees to do so. It is for this reason and only this reason that Betfair deteste regular winners and insist on 60% commission rates. In a nutshell they do not exist to finance the lifestyles of a minority!
Aside from their numerous nefarious activities of the past, present and probable future they will never get away from the simple fact that if gambling was banned the world over life would go on, but if financial exchanges were closed we would have no energy, food, water, credit cards, public services etc - in short Armageddon.
Aside from vastly superior performance the regulated financial exchanges do not directly compete on their own exchanges as BF do. Whilst market makers are compensated and or granted priority with the order allocation algorithms the exchanges do not participate in their own liquidity. Derivative exchanges show implied prices derived from their inter or intra contract spreads and distribute them to the favour of all participants by transparent means.
BF cross match (ie imply prices) but, and i stand to be corrected, retain profits from any slight arbitrage situation. For example Red Rum & Shergar cross match at 2.00 when E'or was trading 1000. If E'or wins, who won on the losing Red Rum & losing Shergar bets? BF do unless they actually lay E'or at a price of 1000 in <£2 perhaps? They also do not distribute the implied prices via their API and as such are not transparant.
Governments & companies require funds to be raised, exposures hedged and public monies invested. Financial exchanges are therefore a necessity and the exchanges transact many trillions of dollars worth per annum.
Betfair however has no such reason to exist and as such must heavily invest in attracting new losers else eventually see liquidity dry up. In this they are akin to all spread betting companies but are actually worse off due to their flawed revenue model of derving fees from winning bets only. I shall explain - winning traders become more sophisticated & efficient. A trader winning £100k per annum may have done so initially by winning £1m and losing £900k thus generating fees on £1.9m. However as he matures this dynamic alters makes his £100k efficiently with £150k winning bets and £50k losing bets. So he still makes the same £100k but only generates fees on £200k. Betfair must replenish the same £100k from new losers but now with only a fraction of the fees to do so. It is for this reason and only this reason that Betfair deteste regular winners and insist on 60% commission rates. In a nutshell they do not exist to finance the lifestyles of a minority!
Aside from their numerous nefarious activities of the past, present and probable future they will never get away from the simple fact that if gambling was banned the world over life would go on, but if financial exchanges were closed we would have no energy, food, water, credit cards, public services etc - in short Armageddon.