What's the point of the in-running delay in racing?

[superfrank]

imho BF should remove the delay.

most TV pictures are delayed by longer than the betting delay so it makes no sense.

i read that the betting authorities' concern is that they don't want people to be able to back a horse after it's crossed the line but that's a race suspension issue.

an idea: give a simple device to the starter and someone in authority watching the finish at each track. the starter then presses the button as he starts the race and the same at the finish. the device sends the race started/finished instruction to BF (and others) which automatically and instantaneously triggers the in-play/race suspension in the market. someone at BF continues to monitor the start/finish in case the person forgets or device malfunctions/no signal etc. it could be a simple app on a mobile phone.

it would also make the SP calculation more accurate (sometimes it's a joke when BF turn in-play too late).

i also think removing the delay would increase volume in-running.

good/dumb idea?

[frustrated]

Hi superfrank

In your opinion what are the fastest streams.

[Iron]

imho BF should remove the delay.

What, and put everyone on a level playing field with their in-house traders?

Jeff

[superfrank]

Hi superfrank

In your opinion what are the fastest streams.

retina to brain

What, and put everyone on a level playing field with their in-house traders?

Jeff

well that's the only reason i can see why they wouldn't do it.

[PeterLe]

It would certainly make things interesting if they removed the delay!
I would like to see the football delay reduced too
Regards
Peter

[superfrank]

It would certainly make things interesting if they removed the delay!
I would like to see the football delay reduced too
Regards
Peter

yeah it would open up lots of new strategies and increase volume - it's a shame that BF took the decision some time ago to neglect volume in favour of other revenue raising activities.

[JollyGreen]

It's not Betfair's alleged in house traders that would suffer, it would be the on course traders who are looking to beat the delay. When I started this about 4-5 years ago so called "experts" laughed at me saying it was a waste of time; now it's big business and lots of "crews" are at it. I am amazed the courses/bookmakers/levy board etc don't try and put a stop to it. When I started I was asked to stop many times as it was frowned upon and considered to be taking revenue away from the course. The courses are so desperate for money these days they welcome the "crews" with open arms.

This brings up the real reason for me posting my opinion on this thread....gets out soapbox...pulls out prepared script..

About 2.5 years ago, maybe more, I spoke with some experienced traders about the strange behaviour in the Betfair markets. I put forward the suggestion Betfair were trading their own markets AND they were pushing money to the front of the queue. Some believed me and some didn't which is fine as it's only my opinion and I cannot prove it. Then we had other people getting disgruntled and making noises about getting matched, or not as was the case, despite them being early in the queue. Then some of the doubters started saying they now agreed with me, something wasn't correct but how could it be proved? The suddenly we are told by Betfair "uh yes, sorry about that didn't we mention cross matching?" That was their excuse for running with the hare and the hounds. If you query a bet not being matched correctly or not being matched at all despite it trading lower/higher than your order they roll out the "that is the cross matching!"

So what is better than a fast video feed? Well if offered the choice I would choose a fast money feed; I would love to have the facility whereby I could see the money coming into the market before anyone else. With a decent CPU and some software I could quickly take a position in the market ready for the money to join! In the words of that meerkat..."Simples!"

So in my humble opinion, that is why Betfair has the delay imposed, it just makes life much easier for them...or as the conspiracy theorists amongst us would say...and who they give the option to.

Now the in play delay almost isn't necessary if you take it to the nth degree because they "see" the money before anyone anyway but that extra delay would give them the extra time they need to take advantage. However, what better excuse could they want than the one they roll out now "we want it to be fair for everyone not just those fortunate enough to be attending said live event"

So who does "see" the money before anyone else....I am sure we all know the answer to that one!

Stands down from soapbox and puts the kettle on.

Just my opinion and not necessarily the correct one.

JG

[Euler]

The trouble with the inplay delay is that people are profiting at little risk from it, though even that has become very competitive and not a certainty.

Betfair already use services that dictate inplay events. So when they say they have 'lost the feed'. If often just means somebody didn't turn up, they didn't press a button or system malfunctioned. No TV feed necessary.

I have an alternative solution. Keep the delay, maybe even lengthen it but put inplay bets up instantly in a separate queue show them as about to match. That will level the playing field completely by giving people without a fast feed time to cancel orders if they wish.

[superfrank]

I have an alternative solution. Keep the delay, maybe even lengthen it but put inplay bets up instantly in a separate queue show them as about to match. That will level the playing field completely by giving people without a fast feed time to cancel orders if they wish.

that might be Ok in 3m chases but not for shorter races/sprints.

in an ideal world there would be no delay and everyone would have access to TV pics delayed by only a few milliseconds. it's gonna be a while until the TV technology gets there (ATR will hopefully go bust long before then), but there's no justification for a delay that only benefits those on course (or those people/systems that are allegedly allowed to beat it).

a financial exchange doesn't have a delay at times of economic announcements, and neither should a horse race imho.

Euler, do you agree that in-running volume would increase if there was no BF delay?

[Euler]

a financial exchange doesn't have a delay at times of economic announcements, and neither should a horse race imho.

Euler, do you agree that in-running volume would increase if there was no BF delay?

If it were a level playing field yes.

I've often been caught with terrible SP's only to find out a few seconds later the jockey has gone out sideways at the start.

[giulio2010]

Hi Jolly I did not know about this thread. I have sent you a PM 2-3 weeks ago regarding this issue with Betfair. However I started to take more and more recording video, using that software I talked you about and I am confident Betfair is jumping in front of the queue when they need too. That does not mean that I am right but that the impression I have at the moment.
What is that I can't understand why in Britain no1 is investigating or ask Betfair what they actually doing in the market? Isn't count as fraud? Isn't there an istitution that protect users from this kind of frauds?

It's not Betfair's alleged in house traders that would suffer, it would be the on course traders who are looking to beat the delay. When I started this about 4-5 years ago so called "experts" laughed at me saying it was a waste of time; now it's big business and lots of "crews" are at it. I am amazed the courses/bookmakers/levy board etc don't try and put a stop to it. When I started I was asked to stop many times as it was frowned upon and considered to be taking revenue away from the course. The courses are so desperate for money these days they welcome the "crews" with open arms.

This brings up the real reason for me posting my opinion on this thread....gets out soapbox...pulls out prepared script..

About 2.5 years ago, maybe more, I spoke with some experienced traders about the strange behaviour in the Betfair markets. I put forward the suggestion Betfair were trading their own markets AND they were pushing money to the front of the queue. Some believed me and some didn't which is fine as it's only my opinion and I cannot prove it. Then we had other people getting disgruntled and making noises about getting matched, or not as was the case, despite them being early in the queue. Then some of the doubters started saying they now agreed with me, something wasn't correct but how could it be proved? The suddenly we are told by Betfair "uh yes, sorry about that didn't we mention cross matching?" That was their excuse for running with the hare and the hounds. If you query a bet not being matched correctly or not being matched at all despite it trading lower/higher than your order they roll out the "that is the cross matching!"

So what is better than a fast video feed? Well if offered the choice I would choose a fast money feed; I would love to have the facility whereby I could see the money coming into the market before anyone else. With a decent CPU and some software I could quickly take a position in the market ready for the money to join! In the words of that meerkat..."Simples!"

So in my humble opinion, that is why Betfair has the delay imposed, it just makes life much easier for them...or as the conspiracy theorists amongst us would say...and who they give the option to.

Now the in play delay almost isn't necessary if you take it to the nth degree because they "see" the money before anyone anyway but that extra delay would give them the extra time they need to take advantage. However, what better excuse could they want than the one they roll out now "we want it to be fair for everyone not just those fortunate enough to be attending said live event"

So who does "see" the money before anyone else....I am sure we all know the answer to that one!

Stands down from soapbox and puts the kettle on.

Just my opinion and not necessarily the correct one.

JG

[haichless]

In racing I cannot see the point.

But I strongly disagree with PeterLe on football, certain of the in play football markets are now a haven for the high tech beating the suspend type punter (i.e the cheats), so to make it worse would kill football in play for the majority of punters.