Just some info for anyone involved with the betfair integrity team, they do seem to be taking information on people cheating the system, a lot more seriously.
Tonight I was betting on the draw to lay Blackpool V Cardiff.
First half and early 2nd half.
The usual depreciation happened in the usual way.
However the classic cheats (suspension beater) happened, offers at 3.1 3.05 that were not taken would normally be left to drift off to 6 7 8 ticks out of the price action. at which point a backer will cancel and re offer at 2.88 2.9 etc.. if betting reverse book.
But at 4 5 6 ticks out bet offers which never get taken all of a sudden they do, and yes no need to tell you what happened after my way off the price offers to back were taken the suspend comes up seconds later. Obviously a layer has info a goals gone in and is sweeping up the back bets as a lay for him at 3's ish knowing the odds will go to 4 plus after suspend, in other words a cheat.
Tonight I have sent my 8th report on this to the betfair integrity team, and I have to say they are taking it a lot more seriously than before.
Cheats beware and honest punters out their send in your own reports of these instances where you have been cheated in play by suspend beaters, it will all help the betfair integrity team to stop these scumbags from hoovering up illegal cash.
good luck and lets stop the cheats
The Integrity Team
Is your concern "court siding"? Those at the match having an advantage over those watching on tv, especially watching digital where there is a further delay? Radio is often faster but in some jurisdictions also has a delay given the need to remove the odd f bomb.
If your concern is court siding then personally I don't share your view. I don't court side myself but in my view those willing to be at the match and pull out the iPad or laptop hooked up to a vps are simply doing their best to get a small edge over those trading at home. No more so than co locating your server at the stock exchange or with betfair etc.
Speed of execution is not cheating. It's an advantage and open to anyone who can be bothered to do it.
If your concern is court siding then personally I don't share your view. I don't court side myself but in my view those willing to be at the match and pull out the iPad or laptop hooked up to a vps are simply doing their best to get a small edge over those trading at home. No more so than co locating your server at the stock exchange or with betfair etc.
Speed of execution is not cheating. It's an advantage and open to anyone who can be bothered to do it.
This has nothing to do with "integrity" - That is for when the player or team involved in the event may be doing something to effect the result for the benefit of someone betting on it.
What you are complaining about is something that has happened (and will continue do do so) from day 1. People getting an advantage by way of faster pictures or being at the event. We all know it happens. So if you are worried about this "advantage" don't bet on the event.
What you are complaining about is something that has happened (and will continue do do so) from day 1. People getting an advantage by way of faster pictures or being at the event. We all know it happens. So if you are worried about this "advantage" don't bet on the event.
no my concern is that, we have in football domestic 8 sec delay and foreign 24 sec or similar..
so in essence if someone courtside/with better quicker connection has info they need to be 8 or more secs ahead of everyone else to be able to cheat, otherwise event happens they hit back/lay and have to wait out the delay, so the only way they can profit is if betfair are behind by more than 8 secs in hitting the suspend.
This is cheating, and betfair are doing a lot to more to stamp it out, I hope you will join with me in ensuring a level playing field for all punters, not just an advantage for those who choose to cheat others out of their money.
Im happy to win or lose fairly (prefer to win) but I am not happy to lose unfairly, and betfair seem to at last after many reports by me and others, be taking this a lot more seriously..
join us in helping remove the cheats who devalue live in play betting and the live betfair platform, if you value the platform show it, by protecting it in this way by supplying betfair with logs of clear examples of cheating. They need many to identify serial abusers, and are slowly doing so.
Thanks
so in essence if someone courtside/with better quicker connection has info they need to be 8 or more secs ahead of everyone else to be able to cheat, otherwise event happens they hit back/lay and have to wait out the delay, so the only way they can profit is if betfair are behind by more than 8 secs in hitting the suspend.
This is cheating, and betfair are doing a lot to more to stamp it out, I hope you will join with me in ensuring a level playing field for all punters, not just an advantage for those who choose to cheat others out of their money.
Im happy to win or lose fairly (prefer to win) but I am not happy to lose unfairly, and betfair seem to at last after many reports by me and others, be taking this a lot more seriously..
join us in helping remove the cheats who devalue live in play betting and the live betfair platform, if you value the platform show it, by protecting it in this way by supplying betfair with logs of clear examples of cheating. They need many to identify serial abusers, and are slowly doing so.
Thanks
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
i wouldn't call any of it "cheating", but i find it a bit pathetic that people will go to such lengths to get an edge.
a suggestion i posted here last week:
Alternative to the in-play delay (for football)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7275
a suggestion i posted here last week:
Alternative to the in-play delay (for football)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7275
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
There's a thin line here. If I see a player in the midfield, running with the ball without opposition and I decide to back his team and he eventually scores is that cheating?
@Frank, can't see that work, you wouldn't know where you would be on many occasions, as the time an event has happened isn't cristal clear.
@Frank, can't see that work, you wouldn't know where you would be on many occasions, as the time an event has happened isn't cristal clear.
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NileVentures
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:13 pm
I can understand what "haichless" is saying. Cheating is such a strong and emotive word but I cannot agree with the sentiment that this is in any way cheating. We all want an efficient market and in efficient markets, weak positions need to be mopped-up quickly.
If information is king, speed of information is his thrown. If you have access to it, sit on it!
If information is king, speed of information is his thrown. If you have access to it, sit on it!
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
Brilliant!If information is king, speed of information is his thrown. If you have access to it, sit on it!
imo There is no way of solving this problem completely,
it will never be a level playing field it's as simple as that.
Even if everyone was trading from the game live or had perfectly live pictures with no delay there would still be winners and losers with the people with the best software and internet connection
coming out on top.
it will never be a level playing field it's as simple as that.
Even if everyone was trading from the game live or had perfectly live pictures with no delay there would still be winners and losers with the people with the best software and internet connection
coming out on top.-
MarketTrader
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:34 pm
I know it's not a spelling test on here but surely you mean 'throne'?!If information is king, speed of information is his thrown. If you have access to it, sit on it!
My belief is that reading between the lines from the conversations Ive had with them on this, that they realise from the many surveys they conduct, that they have lost some live in play revenue from a steady drift of punters not playing with them live and sighting this reason more frequently than used to be the case.
We are not talking about a midfield player attacking and so someone betting £500 their might be a goal, and then reshifting their position if not, we are talking about characters sweeping many thousands just seconds before an event happens at up to 8 ticks out of the price, when those offers have been left for in some cases 5-10 minutes without being touched, then miraculously getting taken just before suspend, this has nothing to do with midfield player attacking as i said it is to do with unfair advantage or what some call cheating.
It also appears that they are evidence gathering.
If you value the liquidity of betfair in play,I would urge you to report such activities if you see them, to save the integrity of the in play betting experience, I quote "it only takes a few bad apples,we are doing what we can, and will take action"
Which is gratifying as they make money if the cheats win or the fair player wins. Obviously it must be affecting revenue for them, otherwise no upside to betfair to do it.
Good luck,and with apologies to hill street blues, ------be careful out their.
We are not talking about a midfield player attacking and so someone betting £500 their might be a goal, and then reshifting their position if not, we are talking about characters sweeping many thousands just seconds before an event happens at up to 8 ticks out of the price, when those offers have been left for in some cases 5-10 minutes without being touched, then miraculously getting taken just before suspend, this has nothing to do with midfield player attacking as i said it is to do with unfair advantage or what some call cheating.
It also appears that they are evidence gathering.
If you value the liquidity of betfair in play,I would urge you to report such activities if you see them, to save the integrity of the in play betting experience, I quote "it only takes a few bad apples,we are doing what we can, and will take action"
Which is gratifying as they make money if the cheats win or the fair player wins. Obviously it must be affecting revenue for them, otherwise no upside to betfair to do it.
Good luck,and with apologies to hill street blues, ------be careful out their.
Happens every day in horseracing when a horse falls or gets left at the start. But is it cheating? There will always be someone with faster access, better hardware, or simply speed of reaction, who will beat you to getting a bet on. If you bet in play you have to accept this as a fact of life.
I think horse racing is a little different,but point taken.
Its the annonimity of the internet, that alows us all to feel its acceptable.
If I were sat next to you in a pub watching a football match with my mates and I knew the game was being watched with a 30sec delay, but you didnt, and I could see or hear the up to the minute action via a headset or something, and those around me are saying I bet they score from this corner or from this attack etc, I will bet you a straight tenner, but i only took your bets when i knew you had already lost. Then after the game when im £100 up I tell you how Ive done it but wont give you your money back, how many mates do you think I will have tomorrow, how many of them will feel cheated?????
Its the annonimity of the internet, that alows us all to feel its acceptable.
If I were sat next to you in a pub watching a football match with my mates and I knew the game was being watched with a 30sec delay, but you didnt, and I could see or hear the up to the minute action via a headset or something, and those around me are saying I bet they score from this corner or from this attack etc, I will bet you a straight tenner, but i only took your bets when i knew you had already lost. Then after the game when im £100 up I tell you how Ive done it but wont give you your money back, how many mates do you think I will have tomorrow, how many of them will feel cheated?????
H
the fast picture boys dont always win.
take a look at this video (around 3:20 min in)..someone lost a LOT of money on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mk-1GES8UQ
In football I've also seen the draw laid and then for the goal to be disallowed..
So the trick is; either learn how to be first to the market or learn how to take advantage when they get it wrong..
Regards
Peter
the fast picture boys dont always win.
take a look at this video (around 3:20 min in)..someone lost a LOT of money on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mk-1GES8UQ
In football I've also seen the draw laid and then for the goal to be disallowed..
So the trick is; either learn how to be first to the market or learn how to take advantage when they get it wrong..
Regards
Peter