The Integrity Team

[freddy]

Yep, don’t get me wrong it is very annoying sometimes when you get cleaned out by someone who knows something that you don’t, but that’s the game hate it or love it

I would say my edge defiantly comes from either knowing or Seeing something that others have not and then reacting to it before they do .

It’s knowledge rather then speed with me, but im still about to take money from those who are to slow to react to the market changes.

And I guess 99.9 % of traders are the same,
I would be interested to hear from anyone who thinks they can make money Trading without having an advantage of some sort .

[haichless]

Freddy, their are edges and then their are unfair edges.
My point about your example of pre off team announcements was that it wouldnt be referred to the integrity team. Try it phone them up tell them that story and you will not be referred.
Phone up with my example and you will be, if they are in essence the same thing, why are betfair treating them differently. Answer because they are not at all the same thing. One is a legitimate practice the other isnt.
Its affecting the liquidity, and their revenue and they know it and are reacting to it. That tells you two things, some people are not betting in play with betfair because of it, and they are trying to stop it.

On any edge I have, I certainly dont take bet offers knowing they have already lost, it seems the refuge of traders with a sad, bad and highly questionable strategy to me. Anything that causes the very platform you use to make money to want to stop it, even though they make money on your transaction surely is saying something.

[Iron]

Try it phone them up tell them that story and you will not be referred.
Phone up with my example and you will be

With greatest respect, since when did Betfair become the arbiter of what is and isn't fair?

Some people call them Betunfair for a reason...

On any edge I have, I certainly dont take bet offers knowing they have already lost, it seems the refuge of traders with a sad, bad and highly questionable strategy to me.

As an aside, I once had the opportunity to make a quick profit from having an information advantage over others. I happened to be watching the BBC news channel when news broke of Prince William's engagement. I could have placed a risk free bet for a few hundred quid, but didn't. I can't remember if ethics came into my decision (probably not! ), but I was concerned that Betfair might close my account.

Jeff

[haichless]

betfair are not the arbiters of whats fair and unfair, however they are the arbiters of what activities they accept and what they dont,on their exchange. It seems obvious to me that they would try and stop something that damages their profitability by creating an impression to punters of the "Intergrity" of the platform being in question.
I repeat they will not refer pre off trades to the integrity team, those such as I outlined will be, because one in legitimate and the other fraudulent.

Good luck to those of you still trading football in play on betfair, you will need a lot of it thanks to the few bad apples.

[freddy]

Try it phone them up tell them that story and you will not be referred.

You seem to think a complaint being referred to them is a big deal, when it's not really.
Most complaints come to nothing because their is no evidence of cheating.

If my example about team news in not enough then here are some more.

1. A horse is going down to post, there are 5 mins to go before the off,
The horse get spooked and bolts quick as a flash,
It obviously could be a none runner, but
The odds go from 3-1 to 20-1 in a second.
Someone has used their speed advantage to bet on a event that has already happened PRE RACE.

2. A horse falls in-running and within a second the odds hit 1000.
Someone has used their speed advantage to bet on a event that has already happened IN-PLAY.

examples like this happen everyday

You may think this is morally wrong ?
but that wont stop people.

Perhaps you would like to comment on some solutions to this ?.
What are Betfair going to do about it ?
increase the Delay again?
ban people with fast connections ?
close for business
what exactly ?

[haichless]

Freddy,
your example of pre off football trading on injuries would not be referred, because their is nothing wrong with it.
Please try it and report back.

i dont think being referred is a big deal, i think my examples referred are building a bank of evidence, which will continue.

Your example 1.nothing wrong with that, yes its not looking good for anyone betting on that horse but the bets not lost (unlike when a goal goes in)
Your example 2. is irrelevant as their is no substantial in built delay to horses falling in running on betfair (so its a completely different situation).
in reply to your question on the solution, it is obvious, and is being worked towards, those abusing the system and causing many punters to abandon in play betting on football on betfair should be banned. I beleive this is what betfair are working towards.
Given the huge number of circumstances that can occur, a very large amount of evidence is needed to support a ban of bad apples, who are constantly abusing the platform in this manner. To collect enough irrefutable examples that cannot be reasonably challenged does take time. Some examples are very obvious some have an element of doubt, but long term the same suspects being in the frame, and the same patterns do emerge.

I hope this helps.

[freddy]

You want me to make a complaint, about a fictional event, just to see if they will investigate it or not. Seems a strange request to me if you don't mind me saying . I will give that a miss i think.

Ive been a trader for 7 years now on Betfair so I know pretty well how they operate.
The integrity team are there to investigate possible suspicious activities
and are duty bound to look at things that are reported to them by their customers / sports governing bodies / police / whoever.

They certainly would investigate any complaint that questioned the integrity of the exchange, probably because otherwise it would lead to a further complaint to IBAS and some bad press.

Going back to my earlier examples

Example 1.
You say the bet has not lost ???,
Im totally confused by this comment
The bet was not completely lost i agree, but neither was the football one either,
In both cases you would have had to trade out for a big loss because someone had a speed advantage over you and had bet on a event that had already happened..

Example 2.
Someone is betting after the ball is in the net
Someone is betting after the horse is on the ground.
Again no difference that I can see.

Moral issues aside ,
Other than to ban gambling completely it can’t really be stopped, either pre race or in-play speed of information always has been and always will be king.

We are clearly never going to agree on this issue,
but i was just trying to illustrate that things are not as black and white as you think,
the rabbit hole goes very deep

Good luck with your complaint anyway.

[haichless]

Freddy, thanks for your reply, although I feel we are not on the same wavelength. You cannot have read my posts in any detail, otherwise you would know its not "a complaint" singular, its an ongoing number of multiple reports that I have made.
It would seem that reading between the lines is not a strong point of yours, or perhaps its my weakness in that I am not so good at leading a horse to water.

I am sure you understand though why your example would not be referred, at least I hope you do!!!!!

Re your answers to my answers on your points, I could comment, but considering you have not replied to many of my points raised, it seems a one sided dialogue (ladbrokes etc) and I think I see the nature of this interaction.

my belief is that the rabbit hole is as deep as one wants to go down it, nobody has to, we have a choice we all have the ability to be above ground...
BTW - is this some sort of crazy matrix, morpheus type fantasy? or just an analogy.?

That said good luck I will be trading on betfair as usual like you for 7 years now, however I have shifted my activities from 80% on betfair to 80% away from betfair on football bets, as a result of my now 3 years heavy investigation into this issue.
Whilst other issues are prevelant on other platforms that means the trader has to make some adjustment from their betfair style, the problem of cheating doesnt happen as much at all. Indeed in all honesty my profitability is up as a result of my switch some months ago.
I am still reporting instances on betfair but obviously with only 20% the regularity given my switch, which is exactly what betfair are worried about happening en masse as seems to be the case, and why they are taking actions on this issue.

Happy trading, its a mistake to keep the waters muddy, it helps what I have seen referred to on here as those at the top of the food chain. (horrible comments betraying a horrible attitude by some)
Good luck to all honest traders.

[Iron]

Freddy, thanks for your reply, although I feel we are not on the same wavelength. You cannot have read my posts in any detail, otherwise you would know its not "a complaint" singular, its an ongoing number of multiple reports that I have made.

Guys-

Get a room!

Jeff

[freddy]

Seriously are you going to argue over my use of the word complaint?
Good luck with the series of reports that you’ve compiled then ,
if you’re going to be that petty about things then there is no point in continuing this debate, So we will leave it for now I think.

I have answered all your points several times over now, I didn’t comment about what some bloke who works for Ladbrokes said Because I’m not disputing it, Yes clearly Some people do leave BF because of it .

If you don’t agree with me on my views
then that’s fine, but at least mine is a consistent view.

Today maybe someone made money from being the first person to know a goal had been scored in a football match.
Maybe someone made money from being the first person to know some key team news before a football match..
Maybe someone made money from being the first person to know a Horse had fallen in a Horse Race.
Maybe someone made money from being the first person to know a horse had bolted on it's way down to post before a Horse race.

All these are ultimately the same thing, a speed of information advantage, This will always happen, it can not realistically be stopped.
It may be immoral to some but As long as people are made aware of this before they get involved.
Then it is their choice, you can choose to wait around and pray for the day that the world becomes all sunshine and rainbows or you can accept the risks and just get on with it.

The gambling commission report into some of the issues discussed in this thread can be found here. https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca ... C6XPYRlyCA

If you don’t have time to read it,
It basically comes to much the same conclusions.

[steven1976]

Is it not bf that take advantage of a lot of these delays themselves anyway? Thats always been my opinion on a number of clear cut desicions (goals). Courtsiders will play a part but ive seen similar incidents on games where you would be pretty sure no one is court siding such as under 18s Myanmar Women vs Pakistan games. I cant imagine there are many quicker feeds than the one bf get on games like that and not many courtsiders in Myanmar.

[Euler]

I once heard that one of the biggest in-running winners of all time was actually an SIS engineer. Don't know if that's true or not, but that was the rumour.

[steven1976]

sorry for sounding daft, what is an SIS engineer? I had a quick google and it talks about automated systems and managing risk. Do they provide automated solutions?

[Euler]

These are the guys that provide the TV pictures from the racecourses.

[steven1976]

ah,okay. Would make sense making a few extra quid on the side.