Newbie Needs Help With Greening Question

[UKJamie]

Hi to everyone I am brand new to trading and this forum. I have a question about greening.
I have read other posts on here and am still confused so thought it best to post this question.

Sorry if I sound a complete dunce but surely if I have backed a horse to win at 4 (lets say for £50) and also layed it at 3 (lets say for £66) then I should have a profit of £18 if the horse won the race and £16 if the horse lost the race, So why do you have to green the card?

Am I wrong in thinking that I have secured my profit or is it a must to green the whole card??

And if the answer is to green the whole card could someone please explain why

Thanks in advance

[followthatcamel]

Hi Jamie, welcome to the forum.

My view is that in the example you quote you are already effectively "Greened up" in that you will win regardless of the result. If you wanted to equalise the same amount across the field you would need to lay a further £0.66p at 3 to give you a £16.66 win or lose.

I'm sure there are more knowledgeable members on here who can present arguments for greening up "equally" across the field Vs leaving some of your profit on a "win" result, (i.e. in your case you'll get £2.00 more if the horse wins), but here's my 2p's worth.

I think it all boils down to whether you want the same profit regardless of the result, or you want to "gamble" some of your potential profit if you think the horse carrying it is more likely to win, or more likely to lose.

If you think it's more likely to lose, and you have backed first, then you can effectively look to profit more from that outcome by laying more than the equalising amount (£66.66), i.e lets say you laid a total of £72.50 instead of £66.66. If horse wins = £5.00, if horse loses = £22.50.

If you think the horse has a better chance of winning, then lay less than the equalising amount, e.g. £55.00. If horse wins = £40.00, if horse loses = £5.00.

For instances where you have laid first, it is reversed, i.e. you would back less than the equalising amount(£37.50 using your prices) if you thought the horse was more likely to lose, and more than the equalising amount if you thought the horse was more likely to win.

Just for the record, I tend to green up equally across the book as it's easy to let BA work it all out for you, plus I can't be bothered trying to remember all this stuff in the heat of the moment. I'm also useless at judging winners or losers, hence the trading.

Finally, I'm sure there has been some analysis performed somewhere where it shows that greening up across the book is more likely to return more profitable results in the long run than trying to judge winners/losers.

Regards
Doug

PS it's late and I'm drunk/tired, so apologies if the maths are wrong but hopefully you get the gist.

[UKJamie]

Hi Doug

Thanks for an excellent and informative reply, which answers my question exactly and now I understand greening across the book ( I think )

Watching some of the BA videos I was mistakenly thinking that BA was placing bets on the other runners in the field to green up across the card.

I think from your reply that from my example if I had layed an additional £0.66 at 3 to show a £16.66 profit regardles of the outcome on my single selection, then BA would show this £16.66 across the field (ie £16.66 in each and every horses card for that race)<-- ıs this a correct assumption.

I currently use a quick calculator to equalise profits on a selection which I found here

http://www.chromaweb.com/bets/calculator/index.php

but once I start using BA I see the calculations are done for you automatically.

To clarify my position for others reading this I do not currently have the BA software and am in the research and paper trading stage of my trading career.

Reading through lots of posts here it is refreshing to see so many positive and helpful answers to newbie questions ( So many other forums have an attitude to belittle and intimidate newbies)

Thanks again Doug for your excellent reply

Jamie

[followthatcamel]

Hi Jamie, you are correct in that BA would show a £16.66 profit across the field.

The link you provided actually says you should lay £66.66 to give a £16.66 profit. It also says you should back £37.50 to give a £12.50 profit if laying first.

Whilst these tools provide the correct amounts, they need data input by which time the price may have moved and the amounts would need to be different. BA provides a number of different "one click" tools on different screens to automatically calculate and submit the required amounts for you - much quicker and easier, although you would still need to make sure that the equalising order has been taken.

If you do fancy having a punt on a particular horse that is carrying your potential profit BA also provides a manual bet screen on which you can enter additional amounts to "green up". This effectively allows you to determine whether you want to win more or less than the equalisation amount on your selection if it wins or loses.

Good luck with your reseach and future trading.
Regards
Doug