Well that's me done on Betfair and Bet Angel.

[haichless]

haichless out of curiosity why do you bother with this forum - you always appear almost anti everything/one -why waste your time - not having dig by the way - just wonder why

I see it as my duty to ensure we have at least one person who doesnt talk bool sheeeet...

[Iron]

Speaking of bool sheet...

I see it as my duty to ensure we have at least one person who doesnt talk bool sheeeet...

[L.o.S]

I see it as my duty to ensure we have at least one person who doesnt talk bool sheeeet...

I suspect the root of all your problems and manner of posting is that your cup is half empty.

But then, you don't believe in the clear and established power of positive thinking/mindset.

[haichless]

I see it as my duty to ensure we have at least one person who doesnt talk bool sheeeet...

I suspect the root of all your problems and manner of posting is that your cup is half empty.

But then, you don't believe in the clear and established power of positive thinking/mindset.

oh yes i do, earlier today i looked at the screen, and said in a mantra the odds will move in my favour,the odds will move in my favour... over and over again, and lo and behold it was so... Im not taking "le piss" honest...

[mugsgame]

Roger I don't need to calm down mate, my post was supportive to one of my blog readers. I didn't say anything nasty or controversial. Honestly

Just to clear this point up mugs my 'Calm down' was refering to my previous sentence in the same paragraph, asking for AV's secret if he finds one. I know that you and Letiss just love it when people ask for others secrets. It was a joke that obviously went tits up. Werent having a go at you or Letiss just a bit of banter.

Got ya

[redtra]

that's a really good point Le Tiss4pm. My poor day this week was when i had eye strain...should have had a day off but eager to carry on. Still a lesson learned and a reason to treat it as a business...i did read that somewhere and now i know why.

I took a day off last week, the day after Lee Rigby's Woolwich murder. I was upset and angry by what I been watching on Sky News and it had a profound effect on my emotionally. I could not stop thinking about it and knew I was in the wrong frame of mind for trading.

Despite what some might say. State of mind and confidence are key in trading. There is no coincidence that most of the pro traders on here will agree on that. I don't mean that if I condition myself to "think positive" I cannot lose. But my confidence level and metal attitude heavily impacts in my Profit/Loss column.
Some trading is mechanical and "black and white". i.e if X happens then do Y. Or any automation. If you trade markets like pre race where you make many sometimes complex quick decisions involving large sums of money, with potentially dire consequences you need to be at the top of you game mentally. How many times have you heard about top footballers being dropped because they were not in the correct state of mind?

A few days off will give me a chance to sit and watch the markets without actually trading. As an avid fan and follower of yours mugsgame, I will be watching all your videos and thinking of your advice while at the same time pretending to trade. You make it seem not necessarily easy, but do-able, with the correct mindset.

I think after spending a lot of time learning and trying things out, it is good to stop and try and put all the info into place, to try and make sense of it all. Your videos are fantastic and together with great advice from this forum, i am starting to make some good selections. Still not on top of judging when a trend will reverse,or how long to stay in, but I am starting to see which horse to select...and making a few points profit. Using the graphs as you suggest is a great help. Thanks and I'm looking forward to more of your videos!

[Zenyatta]

Except for the big feature races, the pre-race trading is far too difficult for the average person, and my considered opinion after 3 years is that the average Joe would be much better off with In-Play strategies.

I can understand why Peter is keen to rope people into this (he's running a business after all), but pre-race trading is not the place for the average Joe to be.

If I lost fair-and-square that would be one thing, but that wasn't what was happening. There's a huge amount of blatant price manipulation and skullduggery in the pre-race trading. Towards the end, it was just ridiculous, I mean people were pushing the prices of my selections 15 ticks or more against me every time I put on big stakes!

From now on, I intend that my results will be decided only by what happens on the race-track fair-and-square, not human psychology thank you.

[LeTiss]

Yes, I agree with Zenyatta 100%

I had a nice touch on The Derby during the morning, but that's because there's so much money in the market, you can lump decent amounts on & know that a bad trade won't disappear off the screen before you've even caught your breath.

Everyday horse markets just kept kicking me in the gonads

There's a perception that you need to get involved with horse racing to be a successful trader, and that just isn't true.
If you like horse racing then great, but if you don't, my advice is to study markets you enjoy first, because bad trades on something you don't understand will deflate most people before they even get going

[Zenyatta]

Yes, I agree with Zenyatta 100%

I had a nice touch on The Derby during the morning, but that's because there's so much money in the market, you can lump decent amounts on & know that a bad trade won't disappear off the screen before you've even caught your breath.

Everyday horse markets just kept kicking me in the gonads

There's a perception that you need to get involved with horse racing to be a successful trader, and that just isn't true.
If you like horse racing then great, but if you don't, my advice is to study markets you enjoy first, because bad trades on something you don't understand will deflate most people before they even get going

Yeah, the big races can be traded pre-race by everyone...the prices are moving more slowly, you can clearly see whats happening, and all the relevant form information is out in the open (public knowledge). But those races are few and far between.

I think for all other races, if you like horse racing, you're better off with In-Play strategies, because at least In-Play you can be sure that there's no skullduggery going on, and the results of your trades/punts will be decided based mainly on your own research, fair-and-square.

[PeterLe]

There's a perception that you need to get involved with horse racing to be a successful trader, and that just isn't true.

That's very true. I was reading a post on another forum last night. They was asking people to display their P&L's for charity.
It was amazing to see how much people were winning on Football; Tennis (in particular) and sports other than horse racing.
I know I'm missing out with the tennis markets. Last week, I was studying a couple of files from betfair.data comparing previous years with recent markets with a view to looking for certain patterns
If you file and sort losing selections by price, there is a MASSIVE amount of money traded at low odds on the tennis.
I'd gladly drop the horses if I could make those sort of returns on the tennis!
Regards
Peter

[mugsgame]

There's a perception that you need to get involved with horse racing to be a successful trader, and that just isn't true.

That's very true. I was reading a post on another forum last night. They was asking people to display their P&L's for charity.
It was amazing to see how much people were winning on Football; Tennis (in particular) and sports other than horse racing.
I know I'm missing out with the tennis markets. Last week, I was studying a couple of files from betfair.data comparing previous years with recent markets with a view to looking for certain patterns
If you file and sort losing selections by price, there is a MASSIVE amount of money traded at low odds on the tennis.
I'd gladly drop the horses if I could make those sort of returns on the tennis!
Regards
Peter

Peter, I think THE biggest mistake anyone can ever make is looking at other peoples PL. It's a similar practice to standing in the Gents at the urinals and having a look over. I think the correct term is "cock watching".

It's not a healthy practice

[Euler]

I agree that looking at others P&L isn't a good idea, especially when you don't know how it was done or what the motivation for it is.

I can understand why Peter is keen to rope people into this (he's running a business after all), but pre-race trading is not the place for the average Joe to be.

No offence intended as it's not aimed at you, but if there is one thing that annoys me it's when I see people saying that I post P&L's to boost business. I'm probably the only person in the business that has earned substantially more from doing it that flogging stuff to do with it. It's not uncommon for trading to gross more than the business. Trading only involves myself, of course, so it's a much easier thing to do and involves little cost.

The reason I post up is to inspire others and to show people I'm a man of my words. The markets is totally stuffed full of rip off merchants who sell you the dream but don't actually do it. Some of them, fairly obviously, have never traded seriously. So its important for me to show you that I go throught he same highs and lows as everybody and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is; in terms of using the product and being actively involved at large risk in the market. I conciously don't post my bigger totals, half my thought process is if people have difficulty believing what I do post, they wouldn't never believe some of the larger stuff. Also on things like football I tend to use very large stakes which are beyond the average joe. I've often wondered at times if things would be better if I wasn't involved with the software at all.

The reason inplay stuff 'feels' better than pre off is because the average range of volatility is much higher than pre off. So the chance of a pay off inplay occurs more frequently. The problem with inplay of course is that a lot of money gets swept off the table before you even know what has happened. As long as you are aware of that you can take account of it.

The reason I do racing so much is because there is so much of it. I can dip in and out of it when I wish and it's pretty much 365 days a year. It's my bread and butter. The low quality stuff can be horrible, but all markets present potential opporunties if you apply roughly the right trading strategy.

I tend to be a market watcher. I don't attempt to predict in advance what is happening, I just tend to read what I see if front of me and act on it. Simple, but very effective.

[PeterLe]

Sorry, I can see Peter has posted before me..this was in response to Mugsgame...

Yep - A bit like knowing you best mate is getting loads of sex and you're not!
Seriously though; A lot of bloggers get some stick for posting their P&L's and this is often fuelled by jealousy. Its plain to see on the internet
To me though, it works as an inspiration to push that little bit harder; part of self development
Its a strange world that the trader lives in with no real reference and (for me at least) this helps to put "the possible" into context
Regards
Peter
PS Enjoyed watching you videos Steve!

[Wainwright]

I agree - knowing what's possible is a strong incentive to putting the effort into progressing (just like your vids Mugs).

With the urinal example, the problem is that unless you believe some of the offers that arrive in your inbox, you're stuck with what you've got - achieving a larger P&L is in your own hands

[newbietrader]

is it possible to make 8-10£ a day with 6-8hrs of time? with 200£ bank?