Royal Ascot 2013

[Zenyatta]

Given up today, seems like some one is waiting for me to open a position and then bang of the markets go in the wrong direction

Some person/people is/are doing it quite systematically, and targeting individual Betangel users, there is no more doubt in my mind about this.

Exactly who the parties involved are, I still can't quite figure out, but this systematic price manipulation is no laughing matter. It contuines to work for them and it has fleeced Betangel users out of thousands of pounds.

[convoysur-2]

zenyatta.
i love a good conspiracy theory,,!!!!

[Zenyatta]

zenyatta.
i love a good conspiracy theory,,!!!!

It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you. Look at Peter's last blog post. The chart he posted is typical of the manipulation technique used. The price of a favourite typically suddenly drifts by a monster number of ticks then immediately crashes back; they put in a big lay bet to deliberately cause a panic, then they put in an even bigger back bet at the top of the spike.

"We also had the weirdest chart I have ever seen at a big meeting this week. I was pretty open mouthed when I watching the price of ‘Bracing Breeze’ skyrocket from a steady 7.5 up to 14.5 just before the off, only to come crashing back in shortly afterwards. Amazing stuff. You can see a large lay order hit the market at just under 10′s and there was a mass panic to exit. Somebody got an excellent back price on that!"

http://www.betangel.com/blog_wp/2013/06 ... ot-so-far/

[Euler]

I don't think you are seeing manipulation, but I am suspicious that somebody is front running prices. I say that because these sort of graphs never used to occur, but would occur if only the net imbalance was reaching the market. This would make it impossible for people to exit a trade in certain circumstances without taking the current price out. So if that persisted for any period of time the price would shoot out or in without a breather and that's exactly what you see now and again.

I'm not one for conspiracies though, so I can only say it's a theory as I can't replicate it or force this behaviour at the moment. So it remains a theory.

[L.o.S]

Zenyetta, manipulation does go on but I'm still relatively new and I don't think anybody is out to get me specifically.

How would that person distinguish my £10/£25/£50 entry bet from a normal punters? My way of viewing it is it's a part of the market and you can make money just as easily as lose money from it, or even predict it and redefine your entry points.

I have felt sometimes that prices are deliberately forced against me, and conventional advice dictates you should cut the loss as quickly as possible and yet you see the trend come rushing right back. So my view is people can temporarily mess with the price but if it's headed one way, it's headed one way.

Obviously there's exceptions to the rule but my new approach is only to get out if I've called it completely wrong, which means big occasional losses but a much higher strike rate, and it's improved my trading to no end.

I'm not stirring up an argument, I'd be interested to hear your take of the above.

[Euler]

Zenyetta, manipulation does go on but I'm still relatively new and I don't think anybody is out to get me specifically.

You should never slip into that mindset. The market is the market and you have to work in and around it. The moment you let the market wag your tail, you are on a slippery slope.

[L.o.S]

You should never slip into that mindset. The market is the market and you have to work in and around it. The moment you let the market wag your tail, you are on a slippery slope.

Can you expand on that a little please? What I meant was I do believe manipulation goes on both for and against my positions, but that it's possible to work around it too.

[Euler]

It my experiance people let markets dominate them, whereas I believe you should make the market your slave , rather than your master.

Lots of things happen, some you can explain, others you can't. But if you can see a characteristic in the market, then you can exploit it.

[hgodden]

What are they playing at, Ayr 5 minutes before Ascot and late off!!

[Euler]

I know, so annoying isn't it. I think the gaps increase a bit from here.

Drama on Ektihaam in the second race. Hope they don't have to inspect the course.

[Euler]

I'm guessing there will be a delay to the next race now.

[BJGardner]

Winning horse collapses and dies

[Euler]

Fill rate at Ascot today is non existant.

[barlorca]

Today has been one of those days where my stop loss has kicked in and the horse has gone on to achieve the result I expected. As Shakespere said its the slings and arrows effect.

A day when so much was possible, but at least (enormous potential) losses were kept to a minimum.

[Euler]

I managed to have a have decent day, but the first half was a bit messy.