Ive noticed quite a lot recently the exact same amounts arriving at the book at the same time on the back and lay. The amounts can be quite random numbers, so Im not saying 10 quid, 25 quid, 100 etc.... I often see 131, 166, 912, 1216, 1824 etc.... (not these numbers but just saying random amounts).
Is this X matching?
matched amounts xmatching?
Propobaly the result of automated excel traders seeing conditions right to play make markets. Which confirms what I always argued WOM is neaningless - The real money that moves markets comes from the race course ring and never waits in qeues to be matched but appears from nowhere and takes what is available
Regards
G
Regards
G
But by taking what is available it never appears in a queue and therefore has on influence on WOM . My experience tends to show that a sharp contraction or drift from a large money order is followed by a correction . And WOM nither shows it coming or going
Regards
G
Regards
G
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
Im not on about weight of money or anything. If it was weight of money, I would expect say, 70 quid match 64 quid but not two opposite traders immediately offer 64, 106, 666, 908, 1212, 1844 etc..
I have put a few vids on youtube you can search out. One of them is in trade in play and there is approx 7000 pounds of bets bets matches in about 3 seconds. Perfect amounts both sides of the book arriving. I also see it preoff (usually as i enter a trade) the market turns.
I cant quite put my finger on it but it looks very fishy to me.
I have put a few vids on youtube you can search out. One of them is in trade in play and there is approx 7000 pounds of bets bets matches in about 3 seconds. Perfect amounts both sides of the book arriving. I also see it preoff (usually as i enter a trade) the market turns.
I cant quite put my finger on it but it looks very fishy to me.
To steve1976,
As a newbie (less than 1 year) to Betangel but as a veteran of Betfair (8+ years) I've noticed your comments of unusual matching happening more and more over the last 3-4 months.
Its cause is unknown to me, but the one thing I have noticed is that whatever strategy I had for that day its affected.
Its not a matter of promoting conspiracies, but my trading is resulting in unexpected losses due to matches not being made, despite presetting, before I see the pattern mentioned, I stop trading for the day or switch sports.
Any other comments, theories, from forum members would be greatly appreciated
As a newbie (less than 1 year) to Betangel but as a veteran of Betfair (8+ years) I've noticed your comments of unusual matching happening more and more over the last 3-4 months.
Its cause is unknown to me, but the one thing I have noticed is that whatever strategy I had for that day its affected.
Its not a matter of promoting conspiracies, but my trading is resulting in unexpected losses due to matches not being made, despite presetting, before I see the pattern mentioned, I stop trading for the day or switch sports.
Any other comments, theories, from forum members would be greatly appreciated
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
barloca,
Sorry that my comments cause the market to change in a to your disadvantage. I can only presume that the market gets angry with my comments.
I dont post my comments lightly, by posting my comments I also notice certain things in the market that can be taken advantage of and it helps me. I dont know if it is out of anger by the market markets which makes them angry against my obvious positions that makes they aggressively opposes them or what but it becomes easy sometimes.
Chuck a bit of bait and the fish will bite! Just for the record, my bait is 7 pounds. Ive found a few more fishing with the same bait recently. So if you see a few 7 quids scattered around, watch out for a few opportunities.
My comments are clear. The market makers, match their own money. They create an impression of a market with wash trades. the second new money comes in they oppose it. My issue with this is, that everyone's matched bets should be treated the same. If someone has 500K more in their bank more than me, im okay with that as long as the way they match their bets are the same. If they have a further advantage it no longer becomes betfair.
Its not to say it is not easy to trade against. Its actually very easy. I know Jeff likes to talk about random entry points, but actually, the markets are anything but random. Quite the opposite.
Sorry that my comments cause the market to change in a to your disadvantage. I can only presume that the market gets angry with my comments.
I dont post my comments lightly, by posting my comments I also notice certain things in the market that can be taken advantage of and it helps me. I dont know if it is out of anger by the market markets which makes them angry against my obvious positions that makes they aggressively opposes them or what but it becomes easy sometimes.
Chuck a bit of bait and the fish will bite! Just for the record, my bait is 7 pounds. Ive found a few more fishing with the same bait recently. So if you see a few 7 quids scattered around, watch out for a few opportunities.
My comments are clear. The market makers, match their own money. They create an impression of a market with wash trades. the second new money comes in they oppose it. My issue with this is, that everyone's matched bets should be treated the same. If someone has 500K more in their bank more than me, im okay with that as long as the way they match their bets are the same. If they have a further advantage it no longer becomes betfair.
Its not to say it is not easy to trade against. Its actually very easy. I know Jeff likes to talk about random entry points, but actually, the markets are anything but random. Quite the opposite.
So I'm I right in assuming this thread is raising the possibility that money is not queued by order of time of placing bets but an advantage is offered to some traders based on some unknown critaria - Size of brown evelope full of cash - . Why should I be surprized all finacial institude are corrupt and Betfair was bound to get there
Regards
G
Regards
G
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
Gmbing,
The thread was more to find out if people see perfect amounts arrive both sides of the book or whether it is just x matching. I caught one video showing almost 7000 pounds of identical bets in play in about 2 seconds towards the end of the race arriving on both sides of the book as the horses price came in. This could be for many reasons, such as triggering stop losses make an impression the market is going to change round etc..... The amounts were such random numbers like 912, 1865, 1245, 345 etc...... that it had me curious as to whether this was just a product of x matching or someone showing matched amounts to gain an advantage.
I see it pre race as well. Usually it's easiest to see on Ausy racing or weak markets a long way from the start. It's as though I've got myself in a good position sliding a bet in at the front of the queue and the market makes a quick uturn. So say if they had just added 119, 64, 233 to a position, immediately 119, 64, 233 etc.... arrives on the other side of the book taking it back out. It doesn't feel like x matching, but I don't know as I don't really know how x matching works so just curious to know if others see it?
For the record I don't think it's to do with bf if there is anything in what I see. We can all match our own bets over different accounts. I just don't agree with it because it leaves little room for growth. Market makers will argue they bring the liquidity which they do, but if a new trader comes, loses 500 pounds and leaves without spreading the word to 5 friends of this great thing called betfair then in the end the honey dries up. That's how I see it anyway. Just my opinion.
The thread was more to find out if people see perfect amounts arrive both sides of the book or whether it is just x matching. I caught one video showing almost 7000 pounds of identical bets in play in about 2 seconds towards the end of the race arriving on both sides of the book as the horses price came in. This could be for many reasons, such as triggering stop losses make an impression the market is going to change round etc..... The amounts were such random numbers like 912, 1865, 1245, 345 etc...... that it had me curious as to whether this was just a product of x matching or someone showing matched amounts to gain an advantage.
I see it pre race as well. Usually it's easiest to see on Ausy racing or weak markets a long way from the start. It's as though I've got myself in a good position sliding a bet in at the front of the queue and the market makes a quick uturn. So say if they had just added 119, 64, 233 to a position, immediately 119, 64, 233 etc.... arrives on the other side of the book taking it back out. It doesn't feel like x matching, but I don't know as I don't really know how x matching works so just curious to know if others see it?
For the record I don't think it's to do with bf if there is anything in what I see. We can all match our own bets over different accounts. I just don't agree with it because it leaves little room for growth. Market makers will argue they bring the liquidity which they do, but if a new trader comes, loses 500 pounds and leaves without spreading the word to 5 friends of this great thing called betfair then in the end the honey dries up. That's how I see it anyway. Just my opinion.
Hi
I like you can understand why many automated trading systems would offer money on both side of book particularly dutcthng, bookmaking and make market traders. And I imagine the amounts will reflect implied probability i.e larger amounts on shorter priced selections but as we don't know the value of their proposed book they will seem random.
I'm sorry that I don't grasp where the unfair advandage may be - If you see the money appear on both sides of the book then by virtue none has been matched when it entred market - And if you had a £10 bet waiting to bet at say 5.8 and the best available price is 5.1 then I or anyone else may offer to lay say £73 at 5.3 and seek to back £73 at 5.6.
Not a trading technique I would recommend on slow moving foreign racing but it is used widely where a small field of UK race selections are fluxing between two close prices for a prolonged period
Regards
G
I like you can understand why many automated trading systems would offer money on both side of book particularly dutcthng, bookmaking and make market traders. And I imagine the amounts will reflect implied probability i.e larger amounts on shorter priced selections but as we don't know the value of their proposed book they will seem random.
I'm sorry that I don't grasp where the unfair advandage may be - If you see the money appear on both sides of the book then by virtue none has been matched when it entred market - And if you had a £10 bet waiting to bet at say 5.8 and the best available price is 5.1 then I or anyone else may offer to lay say £73 at 5.3 and seek to back £73 at 5.6.
Not a trading technique I would recommend on slow moving foreign racing but it is used widely where a small field of UK race selections are fluxing between two close prices for a prolonged period
Regards
G