L.o.s
Its called a learning curve, most of us have been through it, accept and learn. I know (I've been there, and my god it hurts). Like the oriental "masters" watch and learn. Its hard, and my god its painful. But the outcome is satisfying.
My wife and I spend up to 3 hours each morning invesigating markets, she gets her "beauty" treatments. I get money to pay for al this and holidays.
Read and learn, thats what the forum is for. Information is imparted that is useful to us all. REad and learn!
Discuss Trading Mistakes & receive Feedback
This was a problem for me today a number of times and was my worst day so far, each time I placed an order and as soon as it was matched the market would go against me rather quick and I end up taking a loss much higher than I had planned, then the market comes back again and continues in the direction I had predicted. I gave up in the end.L.o.S wrote: I'm looking at the market, making a call, and long term it's correct but in the midst of all the trading I manage to lose money.
LoS - Unless you are one of those people who has found a methodology that gives an 80% strike rate and a smooth equity curve, you're going to have ups and downs.
It's not easy for everyone to stomach large drawdowns and to remain focused and disciplined. Due to randomness, there may be times when you feel like a trading god and times when you feel completely useless. You've just got to carry on plugging away and try not to read too much into short-term variations in your results.
BTW, from what you've written, it sounds like your turnover was £5,000 and you lost £4. That suggests to me that you are near as dammit at breakeven point, and you don't need to do all that much more than you're currently doing to become profitable.
Jeff
It's not easy for everyone to stomach large drawdowns and to remain focused and disciplined. Due to randomness, there may be times when you feel like a trading god and times when you feel completely useless. You've just got to carry on plugging away and try not to read too much into short-term variations in your results.
BTW, from what you've written, it sounds like your turnover was £5,000 and you lost £4. That suggests to me that you are near as dammit at breakeven point, and you don't need to do all that much more than you're currently doing to become profitable.
Jeff
Todays trading I was up £257.00 then lost £93.00. I decided to cut and run.
My next two potential trades would have resulted in another £152 profit cancelling out my losses and increasing my bank.
But its life and itss trading, what is, is. What could have been is "what could have been"
"Lesson 1 to newbies" get out when you are ahead.
Simple but revelant,live to trade (profitably) another day!
My next two potential trades would have resulted in another £152 profit cancelling out my losses and increasing my bank.
But its life and itss trading, what is, is. What could have been is "what could have been"
"Lesson 1 to newbies" get out when you are ahead.
Simple but revelant,live to trade (profitably) another day!
@Barlorca thank you for all the advice. I know I can't just jump into trading mecca but I guess I needed a bit of reminding that it's not all going to be pretty.
@Kroni I nearly did that, but when I've stopped at a loss in the past I feel that I've missed opportunities to make the losses back, some of my worst days have been where I've traded 8 markets and quit. I take a break instead and came back to try and learn some more! Maybe I'm just too eager to trade everything!
@Jeff, having finished the last market, my net result today was -£0.11. I think that says enough about my current frame of mind, going a bit crazy over what is barely a scratch, when I'm still new. I guess what I'm doing is as you've said, reading into short term changes too deeply, both with my live trading and general end of day results.
Thanks to people who have sent over PM's too, it is so appreciated. Had a bit of a meltdown for a moment but I'll be right back on it tomorrow as ever. I have Peter's course coming up soon and I think that will help push things in the right direction with a bit of work.
@Kroni I nearly did that, but when I've stopped at a loss in the past I feel that I've missed opportunities to make the losses back, some of my worst days have been where I've traded 8 markets and quit. I take a break instead and came back to try and learn some more! Maybe I'm just too eager to trade everything!
@Jeff, having finished the last market, my net result today was -£0.11. I think that says enough about my current frame of mind, going a bit crazy over what is barely a scratch, when I'm still new. I guess what I'm doing is as you've said, reading into short term changes too deeply, both with my live trading and general end of day results.
Thanks to people who have sent over PM's too, it is so appreciated. Had a bit of a meltdown for a moment but I'll be right back on it tomorrow as ever. I have Peter's course coming up soon and I think that will help push things in the right direction with a bit of work.
Trading is trading, my wife and I spend up to 3-4 hours in the morning sorting out information for us on various markets. Why? It pays for her beauty treatments and our holidays..
"Newbies" always think they are going to make immediate fortunes. Life is life, it takes time but is more than possible.
Being a trader requires long term commitement and learning, (its profitable) monetary gains come from preparation and iron discipline.
"Newbies" always think they are going to make immediate fortunes. Life is life, it takes time but is more than possible.
Being a trader requires long term commitement and learning, (its profitable) monetary gains come from preparation and iron discipline.
I would appreciate it if anyone can view this video of trading badly and give me some pointers, looking back on it myself it just seems i'm calling it completely wrong as in i'm buying high and selling low, If i'd layed when I backed and vice versa, how can I get it so wrong so often. This is a typical trade for me and I've lost all confidence hence using small stakes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hoQAriM ... e=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hoQAriM ... e=youtu.be
I think you got it wrong at first, but the second idea was correct. But you hovered over entering as the small move downwards finished, I could see you were thinking about catching the drift so you could have rode that to 4s. Then it bounced between 3.75-3.9 at least 5 times so even nicking 3 ticks at a time you'd have gained 15 ticks.
All very easy to say in hindsight, something I'm learning is that if you think something is going to happen and have a reason to believe that then take a position and watch the whole market for confirmation, instead of getting the confirmation AFTER the potential to enter has gone. It's quite frustrating to catch all the bad opportunities and then miss the good ones, I know!
All very easy to say in hindsight, something I'm learning is that if you think something is going to happen and have a reason to believe that then take a position and watch the whole market for confirmation, instead of getting the confirmation AFTER the potential to enter has gone. It's quite frustrating to catch all the bad opportunities and then miss the good ones, I know!
Here's a short video from a trade I did today trying to oppose the erratic fav at Killarney, and missing out on the drifting fav at Lingfield soon after.
http://youtu.be/rQrQUR9MzZY
You might want to change the video settings to 720p HD or higher (no audio narration).
In the first race at Killar it looked like a weak fav when I opened the trade with lay @ 2.3 but an instant sharp downward move forced me to exit for -7 tick loss right away.
If you look at the short-term trends in the 'one-click' screen you'll see the back of field (2nd, 4th, 5th runner) steaming in so that was my reason to enter with a lay and oppose the fav. Had a few more failed attempts below 3.2 but cutting out quickly added to my overall loses.
Notice the number of times the price drifts past 3.2 (my initial entry point).
So feeling a bit ashamed (and un-confident) after turning a potentially profitable trade into a loss in this trade at Killarney I was more risk sensitive in the very next trade at Lingfield and took a quick small loss @ 3.25 but didn't have the courage to oppose the fav for a second time in order to keep my loses contained.
Massive drift unfolds on the fav soon after, and it drifted past 5 during post-time (which unfortunately is not recorded in the video).
Ever felt like the market's laughing at you?
http://youtu.be/rQrQUR9MzZY
You might want to change the video settings to 720p HD or higher (no audio narration).
In the first race at Killar it looked like a weak fav when I opened the trade with lay @ 2.3 but an instant sharp downward move forced me to exit for -7 tick loss right away.
If you look at the short-term trends in the 'one-click' screen you'll see the back of field (2nd, 4th, 5th runner) steaming in so that was my reason to enter with a lay and oppose the fav. Had a few more failed attempts below 3.2 but cutting out quickly added to my overall loses.
Notice the number of times the price drifts past 3.2 (my initial entry point).
So feeling a bit ashamed (and un-confident) after turning a potentially profitable trade into a loss in this trade at Killarney I was more risk sensitive in the very next trade at Lingfield and took a quick small loss @ 3.25 but didn't have the courage to oppose the fav for a second time in order to keep my loses contained.
Massive drift unfolds on the fav soon after, and it drifted past 5 during post-time (which unfortunately is not recorded in the video).
Ever felt like the market's laughing at you?
I would of hated to of seen you use large stakes, you are gambleing with a busted trade. Where is your stop limit that tells you you entered this trade wrong?? and if it was hit why carry on to get it in profit, if my stop is hit am out on onto the next race, if it happens constently then i accept i have had or having a bad day the markets are not my way. Getting out is the road to profit not what your profiting.kroni wrote:I would appreciate it if anyone can view this video of trading badly and give me some pointers, looking back on it myself it just seems i'm calling it completely wrong as in i'm buying high and selling low, If i'd layed when I backed and vice versa, how can I get it so wrong so often. This is a typical trade for me and I've lost all confidence hence using small stakes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hoQAriM ... e=youtu.be
Man ...make a descision and stick with it....give time for the swing you worked hard on predicting to happen ...dont worry about what happens in 2 seconds.....even if you carry over to SP.\
Losing every now and then is just part of it.....if you cant stick with your decision till post time then you could not have made it with the required confidence.....
All this mamby pamby about swings straight after etc is skirt material.....
Losing every now and then is just part of it.....if you cant stick with your decision till post time then you could not have made it with the required confidence.....
All this mamby pamby about swings straight after etc is skirt material.....
Ok, here is how I read this market.
Most of the money was traded 2.14 to early 2.20's so ideal entry point would be in that range. If the price breaks below that I would be out.
0:24, £2k appears at 2.30
0:32, £6k at 2.28
0:27, £2k appears at 2.30
0:39, £7.6k appears at 2.28
0:41, Money gets taken from 2.28 and new money appears at 2.32
There is an upper level forming just above the current trading range.
Plenty of support below as well though. Fairly balanced
0:48, Money goes above current activity
Nothing significant coming in elsewhere.
0:52, Nice little run up stalls at 2.36
0:57, Nice lay order hits the market - Wait to see where it settles
1:00, New money at 2.40
1:13, Money goes at 2.40, not much above it
1:22, activity stalls again - Either hold on for another push or accept this isn't going to produce much
1:39, backed in again, I'm out
1:55, New money at 2.32, if it break that could be worth a new entry
1:57, Money moved to 2.30 so wants to get matched, ditto the above
1:59, In at 2.30ish
2:07, Money at 2.36
2:09, Gone, hold position
2:25, Lovely
2:33, Backed in again, not so great, but need to see if any laying pressure
2:40, Back money was not moved and will therefore probably vanish, hold position
3:00, Well it ran up again but has been backed in, 50/50 on next direction
3:05, watching money at 2.38
3:09, Nope failed, I'm out again until I can see something
I didn't watch the video, just typed as it was playing. No afterthoughts! Hope that helps you understand what I am looking at.
Most of the money was traded 2.14 to early 2.20's so ideal entry point would be in that range. If the price breaks below that I would be out.
0:24, £2k appears at 2.30
0:32, £6k at 2.28
0:27, £2k appears at 2.30
0:39, £7.6k appears at 2.28
0:41, Money gets taken from 2.28 and new money appears at 2.32
There is an upper level forming just above the current trading range.
Plenty of support below as well though. Fairly balanced
0:48, Money goes above current activity
Nothing significant coming in elsewhere.
0:52, Nice little run up stalls at 2.36
0:57, Nice lay order hits the market - Wait to see where it settles
1:00, New money at 2.40
1:13, Money goes at 2.40, not much above it
1:22, activity stalls again - Either hold on for another push or accept this isn't going to produce much
1:39, backed in again, I'm out
1:55, New money at 2.32, if it break that could be worth a new entry
1:57, Money moved to 2.30 so wants to get matched, ditto the above
1:59, In at 2.30ish
2:07, Money at 2.36
2:09, Gone, hold position
2:25, Lovely
2:33, Backed in again, not so great, but need to see if any laying pressure
2:40, Back money was not moved and will therefore probably vanish, hold position
3:00, Well it ran up again but has been backed in, 50/50 on next direction
3:05, watching money at 2.38
3:09, Nope failed, I'm out again until I can see something
I didn't watch the video, just typed as it was playing. No afterthoughts! Hope that helps you understand what I am looking at.
Lingers market
Assessment
Lots of money above and below the current price, so difficult to see where any momentum is on joining. Need some clues.
3:52 - Activity at 3.40 is interesting
4:05 - Some base support forming at 3.25
4:07 - Need to see what happens at 3.40
4:15 - Money hasn't moved so looking to get filled need to keep an eye on 3.50
4:20 - Money at 3.50 was fake by the look of it
4:21 - In terms of entry point you really needed 3.45 to thin out a little, next price move will be 3.35
4:28 - Money gone just above, so probably safe for the moment
4:35 - If prices breaches 3.25 I'm out
4:47 - Stalled at bottom end of range but plenty of support at that level - Lots of money and layers will arrive at 3's
TBH at this stage its 50/50 whether you cut your position or use 3's as a base, your loss will be much lower below 3's so you do have breathing space. I would tend to hold on here, 5-6 pull backs or jumps are normal in low quality markets.
Your final entry was a little too late, but you got away with it!
Search for an optimal entry point and wait for it to arrive. Don't try and second guess every move. It'll drive you mad.
Assessment
Lots of money above and below the current price, so difficult to see where any momentum is on joining. Need some clues.
3:52 - Activity at 3.40 is interesting
4:05 - Some base support forming at 3.25
4:07 - Need to see what happens at 3.40
4:15 - Money hasn't moved so looking to get filled need to keep an eye on 3.50
4:20 - Money at 3.50 was fake by the look of it
4:21 - In terms of entry point you really needed 3.45 to thin out a little, next price move will be 3.35
4:28 - Money gone just above, so probably safe for the moment
4:35 - If prices breaches 3.25 I'm out
4:47 - Stalled at bottom end of range but plenty of support at that level - Lots of money and layers will arrive at 3's
TBH at this stage its 50/50 whether you cut your position or use 3's as a base, your loss will be much lower below 3's so you do have breathing space. I would tend to hold on here, 5-6 pull backs or jumps are normal in low quality markets.
Your final entry was a little too late, but you got away with it!
Search for an optimal entry point and wait for it to arrive. Don't try and second guess every move. It'll drive you mad.