PC scrapped until June 2014 for rugby union

[Euler]

Terms of the trial

• All markets in the Spanish Primera División will be exempted from Premium Charge.

• All Rugby Union markets in all countries will be exempted from Premium Charge.

• The trial will apply to bets on markets in which all runners are fully settled between November 13 2013 and February 1 2014 for the football, and November 13 2013 until June 1 2014 for rugby.

• Winnings, losses, commission paid and commission generated on these markets during the trial will be removed entirely from your PC calculation.

• Activity on these markets from before the trial will continue to be included in your lifetime figures.

• Markets bet on during the trial will continue to contribute to your market count.

• If you would like to opt out of the trial, you may do so at any time in the trial and your exchange activity for the rest of the trial will be included in your Premium Charge calculation.

• Once opted out, you cannot opt back in to the trial and any betting activity before opting out will not be subsequently included in your Premium Charge calculation.

• You may opt out separately for Rugby Union and/or Primera División.

• Unfortunately, the trial is not open to customers registered in Australia or New Zealand.

• Betfair reserves the right to opt out any individual or end this trial at any time.

FAQs

Will charges or losses from Primera División / Rugby Union reduce my Premium Charge bill?

No, the activity will be removed entirely.

At the end of the trial, will any activity from these markets count be reinstated the lifetime position?

No, the activity, when removed, will never appear again in your Premium Charge statement.

Will this trial be extended to other sports / leagues?

We will be regularly reviewing the results and may decide to extend the trial or add in additional sports/leagues.

[Euler]

Reading through the blurb, it seems if you make a loss on a trial market and a gain on a PC market then you still pay fill PC, so I don't think there is any incentive for PC payers to do anything at all here?

[andyfuller]

I don't think there is any incentive for PC payers to do anything at all here?

Not sure I would agree with that. Surely the incentive is to try and make money on those markets and you keep it all less the normal commission. Which could be an added bonus or potentially a better use of your time.

Betfair gain from increased liquidity in these markets.

Then when they no longer need the help you get shown the door as the markets would no doubt revert to having PC applied.

[Euler]

My thoughts were along the lines of: -

I give rugby a try, lose £1k, I make £1k elsewhere and pay £600 PC on net winnings of £400. Incentive fail.

[LeTiss]

I understand what Peter is saying, and in reality he's probably right

The good thing though, is that BF are looking at PC and deciding whether it needs removing in order to remain the primary exchange, especially in light of new competition

[PeterLe]

My thoughts were along the lines of: -

I give rugby a try, lose £1k, I make £1k elsewhere and pay £600 PC on net winnings of £400. Incentive fail.

But equally the following could happen :-

- Give Rugby a try and win £1k
- Make £1k elsewhere

…and pay £600 on total day winnings of £2K?

[andyfuller]

It depends I guess if you go into a market expecting to make money from it long term or not. If you don't I don't get why you would even try the market. So assuming you go in expecting to profit there is a big incentive to try and make money on the non PC markets - you keep it all.

I am not at all convinced that LeTiss's view point as to why BF are doing it is correct. I think it has nothing to do with them being worried about the competition. I hardly see these markets as ones they experience much competition on. Instead I see it as them hoping to boost these markets and get more people attracted to them. If it works they will roll it out on other such markets.

Then when they reach the required levels the PC will be applied again.

[CaerMyrddin]

Didn't get this email and I believe I was never contacted by an account manager. Does anyone have one?

Agree with LeTiss on this one. La Liga is a big market, can't see them wanting to boost liquidity on such a market. Hopefully competition will tighten, can't see how it won't, the train has left the station!

[andyfuller]

Just had an email about this:

Since November 13 last year, we have waived all Premium Charges from the Spanish Primera Division football markets as an offer to our Premium Charge customers. To date, more than 1800 of you have benefited from this offer. We are contacting you today to inform you that the offer now finishes on February 1 2014 – as scheduled.

Please note that there is no Premium Charge on Rugby Union markets until June 1 2014, and you only have to pay 0.75% on Asian Handicap markets until May 24 2014.

Any Primera Division markets that have been fully settled before 00:00:00 on February 1 2014 will not be included in your Premium Charge calculations.

Interesting thing of note was that they gave us a figure of 1,800 PC users have taken up the offer.

[LeTiss]

Not overly surprised by that Andy, as La liga has been retaining some terrific liquidity. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for Germany, Italy and France which have definitely seen a decline.

It just shows that scrapping PC will bring big hitters back into play - whether it's something they will try again though is open to debate

[mugsgame]

They may mean 1800 bets on different occasions. There isn't 1800 higher rate players. Is the 20% still in force?

[andyfuller]

To date, more than 1800 of you

That to me says 1,800 individuals.

It would be of PC payers as a whole, no reference is made as to what band of PC payer they are. But it is the first time in a long while we have had a figure of any use as to how many PC payers there currently are.

[mugsgame]

It isn't too hard to get into the 20%, if I remember right you only have £1000 allowance. Is that right Andy?

[andyfuller]

Yes from memory your Total Charges have to be less than 20% and you have a £1,000 lifetime allowance. I am a bit rusty on the in's and out's of it so I might be wrong.

I can't remember a number being given before for general PC users(?), I know 500 was used for the 60% PC when it first came in but I would be surprised if that figure isn't actually lower these days as people have increased marginal activity to bring themselves down from 60% to 40%.

[chrisangel]

i checked pc portal this week. rugby union included in pc charge. hopefully it will be corrected.