what do you aspire for financially?

[steven1976]

I just thought I'd ask the question to see what people both new and experienced traders aspire for financially out of bf as I don't believe I've ever seen a thread before.

I realise you can't put a number on what you can take out trade by trade but interested to see if people have limits. I know the easy answer is you can't say what the markets will do next but interested to know what aspiring traders would dream about for the next 20 years and what seasoned pros would be happy with net of commissions?


I will add my thoughts later but just interested to see if any feedback to the question.

[Euler]

When I started I wanted to earn enough never to worry about money again. My good fortune was to spot the opportunity before anybody else, so I achieved that.

I'm still ambitious for more though, but I don't believe the betting markets can achieve what I am aiming for; so I'm putting more energy into financials again. The crash of 2008 did wonders for that as it was a great opportunity on both sides.

I still earn good money from the exchanges so I don't see myself vanishing any time soon. But I do see myself handing on my knowledge, especially to my kids, who are now nearly old enough to do it themselves and they will need the money more than me. But they will have to bloody work for it!

[CaerMyrddin]

Sorry for being inconvenient, but would like to ask you a personal question, Euler: have you ever considered adoption?


Now on a serious note, I'm not goal orientated, altough I try to create some millestones during broader periods. Setting fixed targets can be an undesirable pressure that can harm your trading.

[steven1976]

I'm not sure if your question was for me or Euler as ibdidnt understand?
I think peter already has on the web what he earns, or at least he did a few years ago if you look at his turnover and Roi.

I purposely tried to stay away from fixed amounts but was looking for a ball point figure if what people would be happy with in say a 12 month period and beyond?

[steven1976]

For some reason your post appeared after I read Carr peter

[hgodden]

I just want enough so that I can take care of myself and make sure my parents are ok in their old age. I don't have an exact figure or anything as it's not really about money as such. To be able to live rent free would be a dream and a real safety net.

I come from quite a working class background with I suppose something of a 'socialist' mindset, not in every way certainly but at least in terms of thinking that it would be mad of me to be driving around in a Ferrari thinking how great I am while other people in this world are so poor they are forced to feed their families dog food! (No offense if anyone here has a Ferrari btw!) This may actually be a limiting belief when it comes to making money on betfair - but at the same time I'm kind of conscious of the fact that you don't really MAKE money, you only really TAKE it from other people, and a lot of the people we are taking it from on betfair are just desperate gamblers who probably shouldn't be here anyway, so I'm quite conscious of that when it comes to spending money and thinking what do I really need to be happy. So really I couldn't care less about making money or calling myself a trader, it's just about fullfilling needs.

I wont bore you with the details of the sob story, but when I first started trading my family and I were in a pretty desperate situation through no fault of our own, and it was that which drove me on to make it on betfair and allowed me to get us out of it. Without that need I don't know if I would have made it tbh, most don't. It's fear of making sure that sort of thing doesn't happen again and safety which drives me on now (again I wont bore you with the details, all I'll say is it's not about money.)

Boring answer I'm sure but I say this because I think a lot of newbies tend to have the wrong kind of idea what it is really like to be a f/t trader, as if we're all galavanting around on yaughts and blowing money at lapdancing clubs not giving a crap about anything A lot of the f/t traders I speak to also have far more modest 'ambitions' than most people would probably guess at.

[Euler]

When I started I thought it would be 'cool' to reach £100k. But I realise now when I embark on projects not to be so cautious and to aim high.

On the subject of taking money from the less disciplined, I've always felt that exchanges offer people the chance to lose much less than at a bookmakers so we are providing the opportunity to do that. But obviously we have to earn something for that service.

It's incredible now to look at the average book over-round and see it's hovering around 1.40% and often much lower. Anybody gambling at those odds, even if they are foolish are getting much better value than getting ripped off at a bookie.

[steven1976]

Nice post Hgodden, its nice to read how you were in a difficult position and put the effort in to make a change to your own personal position.

Ive always had the support of my family to fall back on but in a similar way, i was at a point where it was make or break and the pack was stacked against me. I wanted to live in Asia and had previously worked in a job i got locally. When it finished I decided I wouldn't work for someone again and therefore i started out on my own and done quite well knowing that if i failed i wouldn't be able to stay. I guess when your back is fully up against the wall human nature allows people to step up a gear.

I think a number of the guys who comment on here or that i know who make good money, have all put themselves in a position where its make or break, which makes them more cautious and driven to succeed. Where as others want to get to that point but carry on with a day job and therefore dont fully see it as their main income. I know I do this. Im quite happy to trade a prehorse race with tiny stakes and have a high strike rate but then just love the gamble as I don't rely on it as my income. I know Peter Le is an exception to this as he has a good job and does well from the exchanges but others such as you, Euler, Andy, mugs etc... went at it all in as i understand.

In short, if i was to put a figure on it for my own question, I would say that to do this full time, I would put 100K a year as a figure i would aspire to knowing that after a couple of years that would be reduced to 50K after chipping in for BF xmas party. Any less than that and the full time hours would not pay the full time job. I know this is an issue AF has and I agree that BF lifetime earnings need to be reviewed or the liquidity continues to drop and the bots have an easier life.

[PeterLe]

Nice post Hgodden, its nice to read how you were in a difficult position and put the effort in to make a change to your own personal position.

Ditto, good post H
I was introduced to trading by an ex colleague who had gone to work for Betfair. He told me about the concept of trading and I was hooked.
A million thoughts ran through my head on the way home from London that day, I can tell you.
After googling Betfair and trading, I quickly came across Betangel and still wasn't convinced that it was possible. With that I took a plunge and booked myself on Peter's course in April 2007 - Kempton. My main objective was to meet Peter to see it was possible. I remember that day as I developed a rare migraine and felt so ill in the afternoon, almost nothing sank in. The one thing I took away from that training was meeting Peter and knowing that it was possible and not a scam. I knew that if someone else was making money I was confident that after researching it and applying myself I too would be profitable.
My initial goal (Stretch!) was £200/Month. I tried very hard those first two years and almost packed it in, as it seemed impossible.
I decided to have one last go and threw caution to the wind. Everything just seemed to click into place at that point.
The £200/month was met and just seemed to go up and up, not just in small increments but big chunks. I then realised that the wasn't going to be a small sideline, but something much bigger. I saw a BIG opportunity. My first 4 fig day was on my birthday and took my breath way. It seemed surreal
Id rather not say what my best month was, but it was not far short of what I paid for my first house in 1986. Absolutely incredible.
Of my total earning on Betfair (which is above the higher PC rate), I have given away over 50% of it to my family, to help them out. That has to be my biggest satisfaction. I have been able to fund two of my kids through uni debt free and given them a break in life that I would never have been able to get at their age.
I taught my best friend how to do it too and one year we took our sons to Vegas for their 21st birthday on betfair profits. It was one of the best times ever and Ill never forgot the four of sitting the stratosphere restaurant and my son saying "Dad now matter how fortunate I am in life, Ill never be able to top this" We still talk about the experience even now. That expression on my sons face was better than any monetary win, but only made possible by betfair.
Like H, Im from a very working class Northern background and proud to be so. The ethics and upbringing from my parents instilled some good ground rules about working hard and treating all people the same. I remember my dad saying, "I dont care what you do in life, but you give it 100% and be the best you can be. If you become a road sweeper through choice, then you become the best road sweeper in the country!". I still work very hard in my career and on my trading, Betfair opened a whole new world to me for which I am truly appreciative.

Ive took my foot off the trading pedal this last six months due to work commitments, but now I have clear run through to the end of may and really looking forward to Cheltenham and beyond.

Sorry for waffling on, but Im only telling this for anyone new entering the market and give them hope, to get into that 1% of traders you need to be exceptional and you will only become that through hard work. If anything this is more appropriate these days that when i started in 2007.

They say Money isn't important, but it is if you have none.

[steven1976]

Another good post peterle even though I already know about your generosity to your mates.

Was is the house with the swimming pool and tennis court or the house with the golf course your best month paid for?

[PeterLe]

Another good post peterle even though I already know about your generosity to your mates.

Was is the house with the swimming pool and tennis court or the house with the golf course your best month paid for?

ha ha I wish! Im still a working class lad at heart!

[Euler]

I was thinking about this thread last night and it reminded me of why I started doing this in the first place and that was to escape the world of working for somebody else.

I had worked hard for a large number of years and done well and had a nice job looking after customers across Europe and had a decent salary as well, but I just wasn't enjoying it anymore and found many aspects of working for others frustrating.

So I spoke to my mentor who told me I would only regret the things I didn't do. So, even with three young kids, I just went for it. Never regretted a moment since.

So in fact, it wasn't the prospect of money that was the key motivation on reflection.

[Kalumpus]

Survival is my financial aspiration, simple as that. If I can pay all my bills & stay out of debt, keep the trading pot topped up. You right in saying that its not a number, we all have widely different situations to finance.

Of course this has to tie in with enjoying what I do, having an acceptable lifestyle. It doesn't matter how much you make out of the game, if its stressful & you end up watching a screen 24/7 you wont last long term imo.

Euler raises an interesting point; "I do see myself handing on my knowledge, especially to my kids, who are now nearly old enough to do it themselves and they will need the money more than me. But they will have to bloody work for it!"

I wonder if anybody has managed this, Euler or anybody?, to pass on their skills that is, within the family.

I've two of my own who think its cool that daddy can make money so easily clicking his mouse (if only it were that easy...lol). Anyway my elder daughter is especially keen to learn some basics & I think shes smart enough to learn. I'm not totally convinced at this point that its the right step to take but I am considering.

Sorry to divert from the OP!

[steven1976]

I was thinking about this thread last night and it reminded me of why I started doing this in the first place and that was to escape the world of working for somebody else.

I had worked hard for a large number of years and done well and had a nice job looking after customers across Europe and had a decent salary as well, but I just wasn't enjoying it anymore and found many aspects of working for others frustrating.

So I spoke to my mentor who told me I would only regret the things I didn't do. So, even with three young kids, I just went for it. Never regretted a moment since.

So in fact, it wasn't the prospect of money that was the key motivation on reflection.

My motivation isn't money also but I guess we use it as a measure year on year in life. I guess aspirations change depwnding upon situations. I actually just like the buzz of the deal. I've had a few shockers in my time but just putting myself in the positions gives me the buzz and being able to make the desicions that I couldn't do in a job.

I had the opportunity once to sell some raw material to the Chinese that would have been worth up to 200k a month that fell through. That was the highest thrill I've had and I got nowt out of it because what we could supply was different to what they needed. Also had a time when I've travelled to Singapore and been kept waiting for an hour by the owner of Sheraton towers and Liep towers. The second he walks in he tries showing his nodding dogs whose the boss, slagged our products and said they are expensive after he had the details in advance. I packed up and said fuxx this I'm off. The shock on his nodding dogs (staff) was worth it.

Not all bad though the ups far outweigh the downs. Just trying to put across to anyway that does go alone that there are always going to be failures and set backs but if you don't put all your effort in then you will always look back and wish you had......

[Wolf]

I just thought I'd ask the question to see what people both new and experienced traders aspire for financially out of bf as I don't believe I've ever seen a thread before.

In Autumn 2013, I set the goal to make £50/day.

I chose £50/day because it felt achievable and would allow me to go part-time in my job as a doorman (two nights a week).

Anyway, I began clearing £50 a day with consistency in December. Now I average more than double that.

It may seem low, but I don't need much. I was homeless in my late teens, which taught me contentment. The life I enjoy now - with great friends/family, organic food, heating, broadband, gym membership, sky sports, new books, cinema outings, etc - is a truly happy one.

That said, I hold aspirations to become a millionaire. But those aspirations are out of innate ambition, rather than greed... I like the challenge.

My new target is £600/day on Betfair, which I hope to reach this year. 80% of that would go into equities (value investing).

Outside of trading, I've started a business with a friend. It's early days, but it's nice to have income outside of Betfair just in case the industry changes tomorrow.

But, like Euler alluded to, it's the freedom that this lifestyle can offer which is the key motivation. I don't ever want to go back to working for somebody else.