Today's Horse Racing

[Zenyatta]

With greatest respect, with that attitude you'll never acquire their abilities.

Jeff

Unless you have the exact skill-set of someone that claims to make a certain profit, you cannot know for sure how they are making their money.

I don't doubt that 'trend following' (or 'momentum trading' as it is called), can make money under very specific circumstances, but for horse racing in general its a bad idea. And *especially* for UK Winter Horse Racing, trend following is a really bad idea

[gazuty]

Jeff and Zenyatta

All this talk of "respect" reminds me of something I learned in law school.

With respect = you are wrong
With great respect = you are completely wrong
With the very greatest of respect = bring on the men in the white coats

So with the very greatest of respect, settle your feud or get a room (a new thread) guys.

[andyfuller]

With Cheltenham on this week I thought for old times sake I would chuck in some money into my BF account and have a play this week. As I haven't looked at a market on BF for over 18 months I thought I would have a look at things today as I have a quiet afternoon.

Glad to say I haven't lost all my ability - using vastly reduced stakes from the last time I traded a market but still able to scalp my way to some respectable profits in the first couple of markets

But one thing I have lost is my reactions - Christ it all seems so fast. I remember that I used to be pretty much able to trade on auto pilot. But now it feels like I am being bombarded with information and having to make really quick decisions.

But I do like being back - even if it is only going to be for a bit of fun for a few days!

[Euler]

Good luck, the card doesn't look to bad today for a Monday before Cheltenham

[steven1976]

I had you down as a swing trader Andy as I think you know horses well.

[andyfuller]

Cheers Peter. From memory the day before Cheltenham was always pretty rubbish - everyone saving their money for Cheltenham I felt.

The other markets in Cheltenham week can be quite fun as well as the Cheltenham markets if they still follow the same pattern. People let the Cheltenham rush of blood carry over to other markets and often you see increased stakes being used.

Steven - I tried at the very early stage of my trading to use some racing knowledge but quickly realised it could be more of a hindrance. To mis-quote Buffett, the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay liquid.

The BIG area I did find it helping was spotting horses playing up and or sweating up long before the on course team mentioned it. Already had one of those today with a horse looking reluctant to start. Pretty sure it went on to win but it created a great trading opportunity both when it looked like not wanting to start and then when it eventually did - it seemed people would take daft prices to exit some of their liability.

It's enjoyable to be back and I have to say the markets are still pretty predictable in how they react and how people use chunks of money to manipulate the market so that they can exit positions.

[andyfuller]

Just realised Steven I didn't actually answer your point. I was always a scalper never a swing trader. Seemed to suit me and my style. There is of course a bit of a grey area between the two and I remember there being quite a few threads about it all and which camp different people were in and how one set of markets suited one type of trader and vice versa.

My favourite trades are on the crossovers - just had my best market of the day on the 15:40 trading Keltic Rhytm, lovely movemnet around 4.0/4.1

[Euler]

Markets have traded quite well today.

[steven1976]

Don't give up your job Andy! . Must admit I think your blog is one of the most enjoyable blogs I have read. I think can still get on google reader for those interested.

[andyfuller]

I don't miss these delays. Can't be bothered to wait around for Stratford and the last at Taunton.

Been fun having a play in the markets, back for Cheltenham on Wednesday. Can't do tomorrow

[PeterLe]

Good to see yo back Andy, even if it is just for a day!
Mind you; even paying 50% can be quite a lucrative weeks work!
I was very lucky today , i was wiring on a spreadsheet that altered the stakes in play. Instead of increasing the stakes as the odds decreased, I inadvertently had the inverse and put a chunky bet on at about 18's I think. fortunately it greened up around 5's so that was lucky! I should take my own advice and test first..
I was thinking or racking the stakes up tomorrow..that could have been embarrassing (0r lucky I suppose)!

[Yirkaa]

It always looks when pro traders say "It was a good day" or "markets traded well" that I struggle and end up disatrously

Had great day yesterday winning 50+ ticks and with same mindset today I was quickly losing "fortune". I realized quickly that today will not be suited for swings but with few exceptions I struggled to react or predict anything. Even scalping at money did not work for me that well.

...It's enjoyable to be back and I have to say the markets are still pretty predictable in how they react and how people use chunks of money to manipulate the market so that they can exit positions.

And this is the area which I have most problems with. I can see it happening. I know price will most likely be jumping back and forth in wider range but I just cant exploit it and when I get some ticks by scalping, price eventually comes right through my open order and keeps going in "wrong" direction. Its pretty frustrating and I just cant find right reward/ratio method to trade it.

I do not want answer on a silver plate but if you could give me hint for areas to look for or if Euler could give me a bible like hint from his trading manual in style of "Dear struggling Newbie, try to look for all answers on page XY verse 17 and try to remember what I preached you on that rainy day in summer 2013" Sorry, I let myself go a bit. Its nice to be back to trading though. All that emotions and fun is well worth todays 5 pound loss. Its better than cinema for sure (my girlfriend disagrees)

[steven1976]

I find if you have an open position with only one position in the market then quite often for scalping the initial move goes through me, especially with small stakes. I always like to scalp by having my next position in the market to allow me to scratch and start again or if i miss the scratch it allows me to take 1 tick loss and immediately be back in to drop 1 tick and start the next scalp. So for me, my exit position when scalping is normally the start of my next trade so that i don't have to sit at the back of a big chunk of money hoping the market comes back in my favour and depend on others. If it jumps through several ticks, I get out and start again because for scalping you have no reason to be involved I believe other than understanding your positions in the queues.
Be good to hear some of the seasoned pros views.

[Yantraman]

The very best of luck to all traders looking to crack Cheltenham this week I hope its a good'n !

[hgodden]

Good luck everyone