Hi all,
Thanks for all your feedback so far, really appreciated.
To summarise then...
Practise mode to start with then move onto a small bankroll (let's say £100 to start with) to figure out what trading strategies work for me and what don't. Breaking even over my first 12 months should definitely be seen as a success with any profit an added bonus.
When you talk about a successful strategy - how many trades is deemed sufficient in classing a strategy as successful? For example, if I've generated X% profit using a strategy over 25 trades, is that likely to be luck?
Re match betting - unfortunately I have accounts with most bookmakers already so this isn't really an option.
It's worth mentioning though that I'm a profitable sports punter (mostly UK and Spanish football markets) over the past 3 years, albeit with a relatively small bankroll. I know the online gambling industry pretty well too.
I'm happy to commit a reasonable bankroll to learning how to trade but at the same time, I don't want to burn through money just because of inexperience! I'm assuming £25 isn't going to allow for many mistakes, even at min stakes? £100 sounds reasonable though.
Re strategies - are there any markets worth starting with? I would prefer to trade on football but I've heard football markets can be difficult to trade?
Also, would you recommend creating separate Betfair accounts for trading and betting?
Apologies for all the questions - want to harvest as much information as possible!
What is a sufficient starting bankroll for new traders?
My suggested 3 Bank Levels
Test Bank: 500
Base Bank: 1 500
Pro Bank: 4 500
Start with 'test bank', if profitable for a month, throttle up to 'base bank', if still profitable after another month, throttle up to 'pro bank'. If you have a losing month, throttle back down to the next-tier and rethink, and so on.
Reasonable profit goal: Try to double your bank every month (so for 'test bank', you'd hope to make 500/month, for 'base bank', you're looking at 1 500/month, for 'pro bank', 4 500/month).
Worst-case: You will lose the bank every month (so for test bank, make sure you are prepared to lose 500/month).
If only I hadn't tried to start on 'pro bank'...
Test Bank: 500
Base Bank: 1 500
Pro Bank: 4 500
Start with 'test bank', if profitable for a month, throttle up to 'base bank', if still profitable after another month, throttle up to 'pro bank'. If you have a losing month, throttle back down to the next-tier and rethink, and so on.
Reasonable profit goal: Try to double your bank every month (so for 'test bank', you'd hope to make 500/month, for 'base bank', you're looking at 1 500/month, for 'pro bank', 4 500/month).
Worst-case: You will lose the bank every month (so for test bank, make sure you are prepared to lose 500/month).
If only I hadn't tried to start on 'pro bank'...
Jesus.
Back to the op, you don't have to have another betfair account but is handy for record keeping which you should certainly do. Have you had a look at mug's blog? Lots of great articles/videos/tips..
http://www.quiteamug.co.uk/
£100 is more than enough to get started, practise mode is good but lets be honest we all act differently when using real money.
Back to the op, you don't have to have another betfair account but is handy for record keeping which you should certainly do. Have you had a look at mug's blog? Lots of great articles/videos/tips..
http://www.quiteamug.co.uk/
£100 is more than enough to get started, practise mode is good but lets be honest we all act differently when using real money.
Yeah, amounts which are too small are just not interesting and won't be indicative of real trading.LinusP wrote:
£100 is more than enough to get started, practise mode is good but lets be honest we all act differently when using real money.
I often used 250 as a starter bank: 100, 250 or at most 500, are all good starter banks.
At the other end of the spectrum I wonder what people think the biggest bank you'd ever need is -
I think 4 or 5 grand would be the most you'll ever need, with the exception of special big-feature events. Any more than 4-5 grand stored in your Betfair account and you'd be starting to lose accumulated interest.
Some people (certainly not meZenyatta wrote:
At the other end of the spectrum I wonder what people think the biggest bank you'd ever need is -
I think 4 or 5 grand would be the most you'll ever need, with the exception of special big-feature events. Any more than 4-5 grand stored in your Betfair account and you'd be starting to lose accumulated interest.
) have well into six figures in there 
[quote="Zenyatta
Yeah, amounts which are too small are just not interesting and won't be indicative of real trading.
I often used 250 as a starter bank: 100, 250 or at most 500, are all good starter banks.
[/quote]
I don't really understand why anyone would start with more than is actually necessary to trade. "I often used...as a starter bank" suggests it's not a starter bank but just a stepping stone to piling more money into other trader's banks.
I found turning my original bank of £25 into £37,600 fairly interesting.
Yeah, amounts which are too small are just not interesting and won't be indicative of real trading.
I often used 250 as a starter bank: 100, 250 or at most 500, are all good starter banks.
[/quote]
I don't really understand why anyone would start with more than is actually necessary to trade. "I often used...as a starter bank" suggests it's not a starter bank but just a stepping stone to piling more money into other trader's banks.
I found turning my original bank of £25 into £37,600 fairly interesting.
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
I agree with only small banks are needed to participate, however boredom could set in with really small stakes if you have sat all afternoon to make 2 quid. I understand the argument it will compound to bigger...... But what I'm suggesting is make sure it is meaningful to yourself so your not thinking "its only 2 quid".
The other end of the spectrum I'm sure its in the 100s of thousands. Some people may have on certain sports 1000s stacked up days before at certain odds to make sure they have the front of the book which for some sports at certain odds can offer advantages, I would imagine.
The other end of the spectrum I'm sure its in the 100s of thousands. Some people may have on certain sports 1000s stacked up days before at certain odds to make sure they have the front of the book which for some sports at certain odds can offer advantages, I would imagine.
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oswilliams
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 12:14 pm
What time period was that over? And if you were to start all over again what would be the most valuable lesson you learnt from previous mistakes?speakers wrote: I found turning my original bank of £25 into £37,600 fairly interesting.
It took me about 3 years to get to a stage where I was actually making a profit consistently (without throwing all the profit away on stupid decisions). After that point, the figure above was earned over a period of 2 years and 5 months, mostly on the horses.
I am actually starting all over again after a break of about 5 years and I will now:
1) Keep records of trades
2) Probably avoid the horses because they make me angry!
3) Accept that I'm not a genius and probably won't make a living from it.
I am actually starting all over again after a break of about 5 years and I will now:
1) Keep records of trades
2) Probably avoid the horses because they make me angry!
3) Accept that I'm not a genius and probably won't make a living from it.
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
Why do horses make you angry? Or do you mean trading horses 
Just for my above point "its only 2 quid", I was referring to a potential loss rather than an afternoon profits if it was confusing.
Just for my above point "its only 2 quid", I was referring to a potential loss rather than an afternoon profits if it was confusing.
steven1976 wrote:Why do horses make you angry? Or do you mean trading horses
Just for my above point "its only 2 quid", I was referring to a potential loss rather than an afternoon profits if it was confusing.
Yeah, and camels give me the hump too!I knew what you meant regarding the £2. I was originally trying to put some kind of betting system together but then saw a 'trading manual' offered online by a chap who lived not that far away so I bought it thinking "well, I know where he lives if it's crap!" His first rule was always "protect your bank at all costs" so that's what I tried to do, even if it was absolutely tiny to begin with. That, and the fact I was skint, meant every penny was valuable to me. My opinion was "if I'm doing something right long-term, it'll show in my bank". I guess everything has a price and everything has a value (which will vary from one person to the next) and this may transfer to the value people give to varying amounts of money.
speakers wrote:It took me about 3 years to get to a stage where I was actually making a profit consistently (without throwing all the profit away on stupid decisions). After that point, the figure above was earned over a period of 2 years and 5 months, mostly on the horses.
I am actually starting all over again after a break of about 5 years
So why did you stop? I'm guessing your method stopped working. And now years later, the market is no doubt much tougher than when you were active. If only we had a time machine and could go back to 2002 say. It would be like picking up free money off the street I bet
Ha ha! I'm not sure about that, I hadn't even heard of exchanges in 2002 (when I was earning £72 per week as assistant chef in a pub!) and I never felt like it was easy...more of a war with the horses. It was March '07 to July '09 when I was making 'good' money and I think I earned an average of less than £2 per race so it shows how many races I traded.
I used to like the tennis too, and made a little on it but working full time and making money on the horses meant I didn't have the time to dedicate to it properly. I used to do a bit of cricket too, which is where I got by far my single biggest win.
I stopped because I moved into rented accommodation where I had no internet connection and then I met my girlfriend so thought I'd rather spend time with her than in front of a computer during the evenings and weekends.
I used to like the tennis too, and made a little on it but working full time and making money on the horses meant I didn't have the time to dedicate to it properly. I used to do a bit of cricket too, which is where I got by far my single biggest win.
I stopped because I moved into rented accommodation where I had no internet connection and then I met my girlfriend so thought I'd rather spend time with her than in front of a computer during the evenings and weekends.