I know we have discussed this in other posts and betfair have always said they don't. I thought this topic was worthy of its own post..source: http://ca.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/6128816
Just seen this Job posting on Linkedin (posted thre days ago):-
Head of Trading Logistics
The Role:
Heading up the Trading Ops team, you will be responsible for driving productivity and efficiency through strong and engaging leadership. You will work with key stakeholders within the Trading department to ensure the department’s goals are met through intelligent and commercially astute scheduling and management of resources. You will be leading a team of In-Play Shift Leads, In-Play traders and Trading Assistants. You will be responsible for the performance management and development of the team.
The role offers an exciting and challenging opportunity in a fast paced and dynamic trading environment.
The Team:
The Trading Ops team supports both the Pre-Match and In-Play Sportsbook product offering and is composed of Betfair’s In-Play Traders and Trading Assistants.
The Trading Assistants are responsible for administrative duties within Trading which drive accurate creation, management and settlement of Sportsbook markets while the In-Play team manage Betfair’s Sportsbook In-Play product.
The team works closely with the wider Trading team to ensure a consistent, competitive offering which prioritises our customer’s needs.
Desired Skills and Experience
Key Responsibilities:
Schedule intelligently to maximise resources and revenue
Work closely with Trading Heads to support a competitive sportsbook product
Ensure best practice is followed across the department
Ensure customer queries are dealt with promptly and accurately
Performance Management of In-Play Traders, Shift Leads and Trading Assistants
Ensure accurate creation, management and settlement of Sportsbook markets
Assist with administrative duties relating to the Trading department’s smooth running
Assist colleagues when required
Work closely and build relationships with key stakeholders across the business
Essential Skills & Experience
Previous experience in a logistics centric role
Proven leadership qualities
Excellent organisational skills
Proven ability to motivate teams to high performance
Track record of generating innovative solutions to complex problems
Commercially astute
Excellent written and verbal communication skills
Strong eye for detail
Ability to delegate and maximise resources
In-depth knowledge of the Sporting Calendar
Passionate about sports and betting
Ability to work flexible hours (evenings and weekends) and deliver results under pressure
Desirable Skills & Experience
Higher education
Proficient Microsoft office user, particularly Excel
Strong numerical skills
Do betfair Trade their own markets?
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steven1976
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I think in the Q and A peter posted recently they also said they trade their markets as they said they will be looking to increase liquidity for in play horse racing soon if I remember correctly. It would be nice to know how they will do this. If they plan to just sit there with money both sides of the spread waiting to be raped or if they are going to use some clever bots to flash money in and match it to create an impression of something happening for others to chase price around and back a horse at 1.2 as Marc says in another thread.
" Over the coming period we have plans to develop these services further, with the intention of supporting liquidity in these important markets."
I personally have no issue with them trading their markets if its done on a level playing field. If they have a time advantage or in play delay however which they could jump the delay and clean up peoples money before a suspension such as the final putt dropping or a goal scored then it should be clarified. If they can queue jump then again things like this shoukd be clarified so it remains a fair P2P exchange. Of course we all know what their answer would be to trading with an advantage.
" Over the coming period we have plans to develop these services further, with the intention of supporting liquidity in these important markets."
I personally have no issue with them trading their markets if its done on a level playing field. If they have a time advantage or in play delay however which they could jump the delay and clean up peoples money before a suspension such as the final putt dropping or a goal scored then it should be clarified. If they can queue jump then again things like this shoukd be clarified so it remains a fair P2P exchange. Of course we all know what their answer would be to trading with an advantage.
I can see now lots of big sums flashing inplay. They act like a magnet for bets as manual traders see them as a protective roof and a possibility to nick a trade here and there. Also big sweeps up and down are more common now. Whether they trade or not I don't know and I hope not. But in case they do and do it with 5/req per second I don't think it's much of a problem. Anything else is. Especially for them. Long term they will destroy the in running markets. I'am talking about hr.
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steven1976
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I just caught a vid on ausy racing prerace when i was doing something in practice mode showing them matching money that doesn't even exist.
Your second paragraph Steven touches on my concerns too.
I have a very fast connection to betfair and I can never get near some of the trades in play. I get beat every time these days. The times the trade is successful, the trade goes against me.
Ive been doing this for seven years so I know it is possible. I personally don't think it is another trader unless they have no time delay imposed.
I dont mind them trading their own markets but if they do it without the time delay, then that's not fair and it will have a detrimental effect as they will have no one to trade against (certainly in play). I can't imagine they would do the same on the football, as it would be very easy to spot,less so on the racing.
For the Pre play racing markets (which Ive been studying a lot lately), whilst the book price is stable, at certain points before the off, it doesnt take enormous sums to move the prices whilst maintaining the book price, what I mean for example; it can keep the book at say 100.8% and move the fav price down a tick and compensate by moving one of more other horses up a tick. With enough money it is possible to do this. That starts a snowball effect.
Maybe there's an edge in there too
Regards
Peter
regards
Peter
I have a very fast connection to betfair and I can never get near some of the trades in play. I get beat every time these days. The times the trade is successful, the trade goes against me.
Ive been doing this for seven years so I know it is possible. I personally don't think it is another trader unless they have no time delay imposed.
I dont mind them trading their own markets but if they do it without the time delay, then that's not fair and it will have a detrimental effect as they will have no one to trade against (certainly in play). I can't imagine they would do the same on the football, as it would be very easy to spot,less so on the racing.
For the Pre play racing markets (which Ive been studying a lot lately), whilst the book price is stable, at certain points before the off, it doesnt take enormous sums to move the prices whilst maintaining the book price, what I mean for example; it can keep the book at say 100.8% and move the fav price down a tick and compensate by moving one of more other horses up a tick. With enough money it is possible to do this. That starts a snowball effect.
Maybe there's an edge in there too
Regards
Peter
regards
Peter
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steven1976
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Sounds like old age Peter. Your reflexes can't keep up with the young kids? 
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steven1976
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- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
As for "fair", the scene out of wolf of wall street comes to mind when DiCaprio is at dinner at the beginning and asking his boss about making money for his clients and his boss is telling him absolutely not....
The last thing bf want is some new trader putting 500pounds in an account and not losing it within a week. They want to get that money off them the quickest way possible for their shareholders. If that means giving 60% PC players privalages and turning a blind eye, taking advantage of inplay delays, jumping queues, holding up money and slowly ticking it down etc....then I'm sure they wouldnt hesitate. They can always say sorry later like the banks.
The last thing bf want is some new trader putting 500pounds in an account and not losing it within a week. They want to get that money off them the quickest way possible for their shareholders. If that means giving 60% PC players privalages and turning a blind eye, taking advantage of inplay delays, jumping queues, holding up money and slowly ticking it down etc....then I'm sure they wouldnt hesitate. They can always say sorry later like the banks.
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steven1976
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I already went through it with them in the past Peter thanks. Waste of time, they ask for screen shots, vids etc.... Which I provided. They said they had past it on to their fraud team and would get back to me either way, which they didnt.
I could post a link to the dodgy shenanigans I saw today where no money was on the book and then suddenly strange matching went on but its using another ladder as I only use BA for automation. In the past it was explained as a software issue with refresh but it didn't look like it to me. I wasn't even active in the market so wasn't a complaint, just an observation.
I could post a link to the dodgy shenanigans I saw today where no money was on the book and then suddenly strange matching went on but its using another ladder as I only use BA for automation. In the past it was explained as a software issue with refresh but it didn't look like it to me. I wasn't even active in the market so wasn't a complaint, just an observation.
Last edited by steven1976 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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steven1976
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- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
Sent you it by email Peter. Its the 100 pound at 1.53 that looks suspicious to me.
It maybe nothing to do with this but it seemed strange that after all the money was removed from the suspended Navarro/Bouchard market (at the end of the match) there was still £14,353 at 1.02 for several minutes afterwards. The last drop in odds was from 1.11 to nil so handy if you have no time delay. Maybe someone can explain it but I thought I'd mention it.
I did take a screenshot but the forum won't let me post it up as a .docx (word), which is the only way I know of saving it. Needless to say, I don't use spreadsheets to trade!
I did take a screenshot but the forum won't let me post it up as a .docx (word), which is the only way I know of saving it. Needless to say, I don't use spreadsheets to trade!
When an event gets suspended all bets which don't have 'keep' enabled get removed. So your seeing a bet that had 'keep' enabled prior to the suspension.speakers wrote:It maybe nothing to do with this but it seemed strange that after all the money was removed from the suspended Navarro/Bouchard market (at the end of the match) there was still £14,353 at 1.02 for several minutes afterwards. The last drop in odds was from 1.11 to nil so handy if you have no time delay. Maybe someone can explain it but I thought I'd mention it.
I did take a screenshot but the forum won't let me post it up as a .docx (word), which is the only way I know of saving it. Needless to say, I don't use spreadsheets to trade!
Whatever they say, it's lies
XM is supposedly there to improve our chances of getting matched.......that's the biggest load of flipping bollocks you'll ever hear
XM is designed to hoover up all the underround bets for a very quick easy profit - I bet they make fortunes from that, yet they feed us with corporate bullshit for it's introduction
So, do they have other ways to trade markets and to ultimately destroy the fairness of the exchange?
YOU BET THEY DO!!
XM is supposedly there to improve our chances of getting matched.......that's the biggest load of flipping bollocks you'll ever hear
XM is designed to hoover up all the underround bets for a very quick easy profit - I bet they make fortunes from that, yet they feed us with corporate bullshit for it's introduction
So, do they have other ways to trade markets and to ultimately destroy the fairness of the exchange?
YOU BET THEY DO!!
I was watching a fast satellite tennis feed yesterday and today from Roland Garros that was quite close to live, it was around 8.8 seconds ahead of Eurosport (non HD). Even at that minimal delay the satellite feed was one second behind the money on Betfair.
Considering there is supposedly a 5 second delay on placement of tennis bets into the exchange it is puzzling how the money on Betfair can be ahead of a fast satellite feed unless there are people with the means to avoid the 5 second delay.
Even if the punters were courtside or using Cobain internet feeds, they would still hit the 5 second delay barrier and their money would arrive on Betfair behind the fast satellite feed pictures?
There might be some other logical explanation and I am not a tennis punter so I am open to ideas explaining what I saw. However, to me it looks like insiders with the ability to beat the 5 second barrier.
Considering there is supposedly a 5 second delay on placement of tennis bets into the exchange it is puzzling how the money on Betfair can be ahead of a fast satellite feed unless there are people with the means to avoid the 5 second delay.
Even if the punters were courtside or using Cobain internet feeds, they would still hit the 5 second delay barrier and their money would arrive on Betfair behind the fast satellite feed pictures?
There might be some other logical explanation and I am not a tennis punter so I am open to ideas explaining what I saw. However, to me it looks like insiders with the ability to beat the 5 second barrier.