Royal Ascot 2014
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
I am just trading this week as Royal Ascot is on. Probably know but my background is in racing so I would be watching it anyway so may as well earn a bit of spending money. Only problem is having to wait in for the Amazon deliveries each morningsteven1976 wrote:Andy, qre you back in the game, never really been away, or just enjoying the big events?
I do a bit on the odd Saturday for an hour or two if I am watching the racing, other than that I am glad to be away from it with stuff going on as per this thread.
I will add I am doing all my activity on Betdaq as I point blank refuse to give Betfair 60% of what I make and tbh I can make more on BD as there is no PC.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
One of the most obvious Bots on Betdaq is the one that keeps the money just outside the traded price ready for a spike down.
Even I can spot that one lol
As ever with all of this stuff - the market is the market. Don't like it, don't trade.
But I understand the frustrations but be careful to not let that translate to a negative outlook and a feeling that they are out to get you. I don't think that kind of mindset ever led to me pulling in good totals.
Even I can spot that one lol
As ever with all of this stuff - the market is the market. Don't like it, don't trade.
But I understand the frustrations but be careful to not let that translate to a negative outlook and a feeling that they are out to get you. I don't think that kind of mindset ever led to me pulling in good totals.
I agree 200%andyfuller wrote:As ever with all of this stuff - the market is the market. Don't like it, don't trade.
But I understand the frustrations but be careful to not let that translate to a negative outlook and a feeling that they are out to get you. I don't think that kind of mindset ever led to me pulling in good totals.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Encouraged????Euler wrote:Betfair have ensured it happens because people are encouraged to generate commission rather than pay the PC.
I was TOLD to
Betfair may have left the door ajar a little, but they aren't the ones driving a giant bulldozer through the house are they?Euler wrote:Betfair have ensured it happens because people are encouraged to generate commission rather than pay the PC.steven1976 wrote:Direct question to Peter if he wishes to answer it. Do you believe wash trading is prolific on the exchanges (not just horses)?
Fact is your customers, both Betangel users and the people who pay money to go on your course, are being railroaded massively by this type of behaviour, where someone does not need to hedge, but they do, which has created a completely uneven playing field where even longtime pros have been forced to leave.
This issue isn't going away and is going to have to be addressed one way or the other.
This is our livlihoods!! How we feed ourselves, clothe ourselves, shelter ourselves.... its not like its just the odd race this is happening on so we can avoid it, and I'm certainly not here just for the fun of itandyfuller wrote:
As ever with all of this stuff - the market is the market. Don't like it, don't trade.
As I understand from the Betfair board, I'm the one of few people who has got off my arse to raise it with them. As some Bet Angel users can testify, I actually asked them to voice their opinions, then I took the time and effort to represent with board members of Betfair. I think it's fair to say I've been doing my bit.hgodden wrote:This issue isn't going away and is going to have to be addressed one way or the other.
Personally I think Betfair are naive to think that manipulation won't damage them long term. It should be easy to spot internally as well.
But some of this depends on what you consider fair or not. In my experience because we are in a betting market people don't particularly care it seems.
But some of this depends on what you consider fair or not. In my experience because we are in a betting market people don't particularly care it seems.
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
In wasn't moaning by the way. I've been doing that part for 2 years, since I first spoke out about it. Maybe my constant posts also partially contribute to the downfall for other because small traders come and read it and move on.
However, I agree with hgodden. Its not a case of betfair ensured it happened. If tomorrow they suddenly stopped taking 60% off the top washers, would the washers stop what they are doing or just continue? Judging off the banking system, no. Money is evil.
Again, the argument of, if you don't like it..... Fair enough, as long as its clear that it is no longer a p2p exchange. Make it clear in the terms along the lines of, Our market makers will take your bet and move it into a losing position long enough to sell it on. If they can't sell it then it becomes a gamble between you and the market maker..... Etc... Don't dress it up as I'm taking an opinion on a level playing field.
At the moment they are allowing fraud in my opinion, which in a regulated world would get a lot of people locked up.
However, I agree with hgodden. Its not a case of betfair ensured it happened. If tomorrow they suddenly stopped taking 60% off the top washers, would the washers stop what they are doing or just continue? Judging off the banking system, no. Money is evil.
Again, the argument of, if you don't like it..... Fair enough, as long as its clear that it is no longer a p2p exchange. Make it clear in the terms along the lines of, Our market makers will take your bet and move it into a losing position long enough to sell it on. If they can't sell it then it becomes a gamble between you and the market maker..... Etc... Don't dress it up as I'm taking an opinion on a level playing field.
At the moment they are allowing fraud in my opinion, which in a regulated world would get a lot of people locked up.
well!!
Unfortunately looks like mr super bot has ramped up his activities this week looking through this thread. I feel for you guys trying to trade the markets against it. Its almost impossible to make anything substantial out of it. You have to ramp stakes down to minimal to stay under the radar and even then you'll only get a few RT's in you can keep as profit.
As you know I got squeezed out over about a year of this activity after 5 years of being a pro. Did I wake up and suddenly forget how to trade...no! Did I lose my edge....maybe....but I don;t think so. I neve actually lost any money. I just got squeezed at one end by betfair and the other end by the market manipulator and in the end it simply wasn't worth the risk and energy anymore. Its a shame...it really is! If it was a level playing field I would have been in the markets with you this week.
between the couple of pro's that are left you guys MUST talk to each other and have a huge in depth knowledge of the regulars and what they do in the market. Someone must know who or what this guy is on the forum. Its simply too big of an activity and too small a community of traders anymore for this guy to keep his head under the radar. I don;t believe it is betfair for one minute. Its too risky a situation to deny and get caught with afterwards. It would take their business down. Its definitely the activity of one person/ a group probably looking to generate massive implied commission by taking over most of the book, using some complex market profiling techniques and getting an idea of exactly what is getting matched and by who and trading against it.
They clearly have huge pockets and know exactly how a sports market works. I am guessing this is someone who has been around a long time learning the trade which is why I am convinced someone must know something more!
Unfortunately looks like mr super bot has ramped up his activities this week looking through this thread. I feel for you guys trying to trade the markets against it. Its almost impossible to make anything substantial out of it. You have to ramp stakes down to minimal to stay under the radar and even then you'll only get a few RT's in you can keep as profit.
As you know I got squeezed out over about a year of this activity after 5 years of being a pro. Did I wake up and suddenly forget how to trade...no! Did I lose my edge....maybe....but I don;t think so. I neve actually lost any money. I just got squeezed at one end by betfair and the other end by the market manipulator and in the end it simply wasn't worth the risk and energy anymore. Its a shame...it really is! If it was a level playing field I would have been in the markets with you this week.
between the couple of pro's that are left you guys MUST talk to each other and have a huge in depth knowledge of the regulars and what they do in the market. Someone must know who or what this guy is on the forum. Its simply too big of an activity and too small a community of traders anymore for this guy to keep his head under the radar. I don;t believe it is betfair for one minute. Its too risky a situation to deny and get caught with afterwards. It would take their business down. Its definitely the activity of one person/ a group probably looking to generate massive implied commission by taking over most of the book, using some complex market profiling techniques and getting an idea of exactly what is getting matched and by who and trading against it.
They clearly have huge pockets and know exactly how a sports market works. I am guessing this is someone who has been around a long time learning the trade which is why I am convinced someone must know something more!
I realise betfair will and I am sure internally they have taken a look.
I'm convinced someone in this community must know who it is. Like I said its too small a trading community and anyone who's anyone in the betfair world knows betangel and at some point is likely to have been a contributor here.
I'm convinced someone in this community must know who it is. Like I said its too small a trading community and anyone who's anyone in the betfair world knows betangel and at some point is likely to have been a contributor here.