I guess I am one of the (LOLZ!!) first time posters. I've been registered for a couple of years but never posted. However, I have used the forum extensively. Mainly reading a lot of older posts from PW and Mugsgame and I've learnt lots from both of them.
Like Dave Hartley I've been on both PW and Mugsgame's courses. Both improved my understanding of the markets greatly. I wasn't looking for the holy grail I just thought they were a good opportunity to meet somebody who does this for a living.
I posted on this thread because I thought people were being very unfair on Mugsgame. The suggestion that he's been underhanded in the way he's gone about establishing his courses doesn't make sense to me. He gave away loads of good information on this forum for years before starting his blog. There is even more stuff on the blog which is still freely available. If you read it from start to finish he pretty much reveals all of the ways in which he makes money.
Despite this he got lots of requests to run a course. He's proven his credibility over a number of years so why not? He's not flogging e-books.
Peter Webb videos
-
steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
Looks like caan is suited up as security to stop any cheap shots from behind by Peter to Mugsgame! 
-
Online Trader
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:13 am
+11111 JeffFerru123 wrote:I'd accept that it's what happens in the free market, and my focus would be on ensuring that I offered as competitive a product as possible. That competition can only benefit the consumer.tweebie1999 wrote:I'll put it like this; if I had worked hard to build up a business and establish a brand offering software and education and someone else came onto the community I had created offering competing training courses ,I wouldn't be too impressed.
You can't blame someone for setting up in business and becoming a competitor (not that I think Peter does).
Jeff
Nobody has a divine right to be out there on their own, just because they have been there for a long time,competition is good for the consumer.
I think 99% of the negativity aimed at Steve is born out of envy
Teddy knew a thing or two.
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
-
andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Just to chuck a few words into the debate.
Firstly I would say Mugs is very grateful for this thread, over a thousand views and counting....
I don't know Mugs from Adam so can't comment on him personally but I would not be surprised if he came into this offering the advice for free and later realised he could make money out of it as there was a demand for it. Much like Peter Webb, he didn't start out offering courses, they came later.
As for the trading software, I have had a quick look and it seems he uses other software, I may be wrong. Back in the day at one time other software was imo way ahead of anyone else in the trading software game not only in the way the software worked but in other aspects. I don't keep my ear to the ground like I used to but as far as I know they have long since been knocked off the top perch.
As to what software is best though is very subjective. What is best for one person is not for another. For me Bet Angel was once the best but then it was left miles behind as new software came out which opened up some very lucrative ways of trading so I switched years ago.
In terms of someone suggesting Mugs is a bit rich posting on BA I think that is very wrong and has been addressed in other ways over the years. Many posters on here would be long since gone if they were not allowed to post on here if they didn't use Bet Angel, myself included. I would suggest that Mugs has actually brought in a lot of people who now subscribe to Bet Angel or has put money in the pockets of many of the people who post on the forum. But most of all he has achieved what was wanted, a community of traders.
I never really understand why people get so wound up by people selling their time and experience. Instead that mental effort would be better placed on improving their own trading. If there is wrong doing happening, yes it should be exposed, but I dont see that as being the case here.
Along the lines of PeterLe from earlier int he thread, I am having a wood burning log fire installed ready for the winter. Could I do it myself, yes, but it would take me a heck of a lot longer and take a lot of additional effort. Or I could pay a premium and get someone in and to do it for me and pay them a rate which I am happy to in return for their knowledge and experience. I will shop around first though and ask for recommendations and then make my decision. If I don't like what I hear or how much it is going to be I will move on. No one is forcing me to have it.
Firstly I would say Mugs is very grateful for this thread, over a thousand views and counting....
I don't know Mugs from Adam so can't comment on him personally but I would not be surprised if he came into this offering the advice for free and later realised he could make money out of it as there was a demand for it. Much like Peter Webb, he didn't start out offering courses, they came later.
As for the trading software, I have had a quick look and it seems he uses other software, I may be wrong. Back in the day at one time other software was imo way ahead of anyone else in the trading software game not only in the way the software worked but in other aspects. I don't keep my ear to the ground like I used to but as far as I know they have long since been knocked off the top perch.
As to what software is best though is very subjective. What is best for one person is not for another. For me Bet Angel was once the best but then it was left miles behind as new software came out which opened up some very lucrative ways of trading so I switched years ago.
In terms of someone suggesting Mugs is a bit rich posting on BA I think that is very wrong and has been addressed in other ways over the years. Many posters on here would be long since gone if they were not allowed to post on here if they didn't use Bet Angel, myself included. I would suggest that Mugs has actually brought in a lot of people who now subscribe to Bet Angel or has put money in the pockets of many of the people who post on the forum. But most of all he has achieved what was wanted, a community of traders.
I never really understand why people get so wound up by people selling their time and experience. Instead that mental effort would be better placed on improving their own trading. If there is wrong doing happening, yes it should be exposed, but I dont see that as being the case here.
Along the lines of PeterLe from earlier int he thread, I am having a wood burning log fire installed ready for the winter. Could I do it myself, yes, but it would take me a heck of a lot longer and take a lot of additional effort. Or I could pay a premium and get someone in and to do it for me and pay them a rate which I am happy to in return for their knowledge and experience. I will shop around first though and ask for recommendations and then make my decision. If I don't like what I hear or how much it is going to be I will move on. No one is forcing me to have it.
Yeah but you are paying them to build you a wood burner, not paying them to tell you how to build as wood burner. There's a massive difference.
You are right though about efforts being better spent elsewhere.
I had been clean from the forum for about 7 months, then i read that promo on betfair about sending pictures of my greens into twitter, go green for august with the trading pros.
I just wondered what that was all about and found this thread and got drawn into posting. I need not have bothered really.
Good luck to all those running courses and attending them.
You are right though about efforts being better spent elsewhere.
I had been clean from the forum for about 7 months, then i read that promo on betfair about sending pictures of my greens into twitter, go green for august with the trading pros.
I just wondered what that was all about and found this thread and got drawn into posting. I need not have bothered really.
Good luck to all those running courses and attending them.
That is the problem for me Andy. Free advertising on the most used Betfair trading software out there. He spruiked his site, "helped" a few newbies and other BA users there, and you know the rest.andyfuller wrote:I would suggest that Mugs has actually brought in a lot of people who now subscribe to Bet Angel or has put money in the pockets of many of the people who post on the forum. But most of all he has achieved what was wanted, a community of traders.
Has anyone come up with a verdict yet, I am leaning towards enemies...
-
steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
To be fair naffman, he was on here giving free advice when you were probably just starting secondary school as hes been around for a while 
I like scalping, so what he does, doesn't really appeal to me but I would imagine his style of trading has helped a lot of people whether paid for or just by watching his videos. Just seeing how long he is willing to sit on a trade, when he feels a market is going a certain way, probably helps a few people. I imagine. He also talks about being selective in his approach and will do research of certain races, which I would imagine a lot of people forget about and can get caught up in the moment with all the flashing lights and big numbers being chucked backwards and forwards. I understand some of the biggest winners on BF trade in a similar way by searching out plain old value.
I've done well off advice he gave on winter jumps on low priced favourites for free!
He certainly puts the most trading vids out there as far as I see of any of the people that are selling advice/courses etc... so i don't see he can be knocked.
I like scalping, so what he does, doesn't really appeal to me but I would imagine his style of trading has helped a lot of people whether paid for or just by watching his videos. Just seeing how long he is willing to sit on a trade, when he feels a market is going a certain way, probably helps a few people. I imagine. He also talks about being selective in his approach and will do research of certain races, which I would imagine a lot of people forget about and can get caught up in the moment with all the flashing lights and big numbers being chucked backwards and forwards. I understand some of the biggest winners on BF trade in a similar way by searching out plain old value.
I've done well off advice he gave on winter jumps on low priced favourites for free!
He certainly puts the most trading vids out there as far as I see of any of the people that are selling advice/courses etc... so i don't see he can be knocked.
Does it really matter how old I am? I'm only 19 but I realised I needed to put my all into understanding Betfair inside and out if I wanted to profit from it. I just don't understand the reasoning behind people's will to attend these trading courses that's all. Hard graft is what it takes, not someone telling you when to press a button for $700. I just think that those who take these courses are trying to take the easy option instead of putting their head down and getting on with it. Just my opinion, I expect not many people will agree but oh well.
-
moleytrade
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:18 am
I don't agree with this. If you buy a system or a strategy then this is true. The aim of these courses are to explain how the markets function and what drives them. This information can be used in anyway you see fit.oscar123 wrote:Yeah but you are paying them to build you a wood burner, not paying them to tell you how to build as wood burner. There's a massive difference.
I completely agree that there is no shortcut when learning to trade. You must put in the screen time and make your own observations. But I never thought attending a training course was a quick fix to success. It is all about learning something from someone else's experience.
The thing about the 10,000 hour rule is that it is deliberate practice. You can put in all the screen time you want but if you are looking at the wrong things or not understanding why things are happening then you could just be wasting your time.
"practice isn't a SUFFICIENT condition for success. I could play chess for 100 years and I'll never be a grandmaster. The point is simply that natural ability requires a huge investment of time in order to be made manifest. Unfortunately, sometimes complex ideas get oversimplified in translation."
Malcolm Gladwell
-
tweebie1999
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:23 am
I didn't mean someone can't set up on their own. My point was that this is Bet Angel's platform and Bet Angel's business and anyone coming on here and promoting competing products is taking a liberty. Especially when they are charging for it. Would Tesco let Sainsburys park a promotional vehicle in Tesco's own car park?Online Trader wrote:+11111 JeffFerru123 wrote:I'd accept that it's what happens in the free market, and my focus would be on ensuring that I offered as competitive a product as possible. That competition can only benefit the consumer.tweebie1999 wrote:I'll put it like this; if I had worked hard to build up a business and establish a brand offering software and education and someone else came onto the community I had created offering competing training courses ,I wouldn't be too impressed.
You can't blame someone for setting up in business and becoming a competitor (not that I think Peter does).
Jeff
Nobody has a divine right to be out there on their own, just because they have been there for a long time,competition is good for the consumer.
I think 99% of the negativity aimed at Steve is born out of envy
Mugs has never advertised his training course in the forum (and he's posted very little at all since he started offering training).
You are inadvertently promoting Mugs's courses, however, by writing about how he is taking a liberty by doing so!
Someone might read your post and think 'Who is this Mugs character and what courses does he offer?'.
Jeff
You are inadvertently promoting Mugs's courses, however, by writing about how he is taking a liberty by doing so!
Someone might read your post and think 'Who is this Mugs character and what courses does he offer?'.Jeff
tweebie1999 wrote:My point was that this is Bet Angel's platform and Bet Angel's business and anyone coming on here and promoting competing products is taking a liberty. Especially when they are charging for it. Would Tesco let Sainsburys park a promotional vehicle in Tesco's own car park?
Last edited by Iron on Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I won't ask what software you now use, as that would be inappropriate in this forum, but what features would Bet Angel need to add for you to switch back?andyfuller wrote:For me Bet Angel was once the best but then it was left miles behind as new software came out which opened up some very lucrative ways of trading so I switched years ago.
Jeff
Well if they want to, that is their decision, but IMO, as you all now know, they are a waste of time.Ferru123 wrote:You are inadvertently promoting Mugs's courses, however, by writing about how he is taking a liberty by doing so!