http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... rlong.html
Quotes someone from Ladbrookes as saying:
“If turnover trends do not improve and if the current cost structures are maintained for horse betting in particular, it may rapidly reach the point where it becomes unsustainable as a product.”
Is horse racing entering the final furlong?
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mbailey1705
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:25 am
Hi Jeff,
The daft idiots only have themselves to blame.
As you know I spent the last 6 years betting with bookies on value horses. I was in the minority who actually took money from them (between £40k and £70k per year) but back then when bookies were bookies and actually took bets the markets were very busy and active with volume regardless of the day of week and time of year. In my opinion this summers racing in terms of quality / volume has been totally dire.
I personally know a lot of people have given up betting with them because bookies do not accept winning punters anymore. I've had accounts blocked after placing one bet even before the race had started! Its all a load of daft rubbish as they could easily offset most of their liabilities on the exchanges anyway, and what about their huge overrounds.
About 2 years ago I noticed that Ladbrokes never offered a value price anymore. Every single bet was under the Exchange prices. And they wonder why its dying off.
In my opinion to save horse racing, the bookies are the ones that need to change. There are a heck of a lot of people that do not get the exchange concept and they turn to bookies. If they have one or two bets and get blocked then they are never going to consider betting long term.
I've heard rom one contact of mine that in a particular region in Australia, they have passed a law that if you are a bookie you have to accept around $25ew on every bet regardless of whether the person wins or not. Now that is common sense....
Hey ho, wonder whether they will ever loosen up again. I suspect not as all they are really interested in is attracting mug punters who use the betting terminals and online casinos etc.
The daft idiots only have themselves to blame.
As you know I spent the last 6 years betting with bookies on value horses. I was in the minority who actually took money from them (between £40k and £70k per year) but back then when bookies were bookies and actually took bets the markets were very busy and active with volume regardless of the day of week and time of year. In my opinion this summers racing in terms of quality / volume has been totally dire.
I personally know a lot of people have given up betting with them because bookies do not accept winning punters anymore. I've had accounts blocked after placing one bet even before the race had started! Its all a load of daft rubbish as they could easily offset most of their liabilities on the exchanges anyway, and what about their huge overrounds.
About 2 years ago I noticed that Ladbrokes never offered a value price anymore. Every single bet was under the Exchange prices. And they wonder why its dying off.
In my opinion to save horse racing, the bookies are the ones that need to change. There are a heck of a lot of people that do not get the exchange concept and they turn to bookies. If they have one or two bets and get blocked then they are never going to consider betting long term.
I've heard rom one contact of mine that in a particular region in Australia, they have passed a law that if you are a bookie you have to accept around $25ew on every bet regardless of whether the person wins or not. Now that is common sense....
Hey ho, wonder whether they will ever loosen up again. I suspect not as all they are really interested in is attracting mug punters who use the betting terminals and online casinos etc.
Interesting article
I struggle to see how courses like Cartmel and Market Rasen could possibly survive without the Levy Board. Cartmel is a beautiful track in a stunning location - that course would be worth a staggering fortune if they sold it to a housing developer, far more than it's current worth is a viable business
The guy from Laddies is right though, the sustainability of horse racing is reliant on attracting new blood, younger punters. Young men are far more interested in football, especially as internet betting means many have probably never even stepped foot into a high street betting shop
The worry for the Racing world is ignorance and naivety - so many people in the racing world are simply living in the past, they refuse to accept the bookmakers claims and just think they are being hoodwinked into accepting lower Levy payments
I struggle to see how courses like Cartmel and Market Rasen could possibly survive without the Levy Board. Cartmel is a beautiful track in a stunning location - that course would be worth a staggering fortune if they sold it to a housing developer, far more than it's current worth is a viable business
The guy from Laddies is right though, the sustainability of horse racing is reliant on attracting new blood, younger punters. Young men are far more interested in football, especially as internet betting means many have probably never even stepped foot into a high street betting shop
The worry for the Racing world is ignorance and naivety - so many people in the racing world are simply living in the past, they refuse to accept the bookmakers claims and just think they are being hoodwinked into accepting lower Levy payments
You're right mbailey, RacingNSW just recently changed the law, thus allowing punters to stake up to $2K on a city meeting, and $1K on Provincial and Country meetings.mbailey1705 wrote:I've heard rom one contact of mine that in a particular region in Australia, they have passed a law that if you are a bookie you have to accept around $25ew on every bet regardless of whether the person wins or not. Now that is common sense....
I'm sure these "bookies" have recuperated (if not made a huge profit) by focusing their efforts on their FOBT's.
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mbailey1705
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:25 am
Thanks for confirming that regarding the Australian racing. I couldn't remember the exact source but I think it was Mick McDermott who is actively trying to raise the issue of the way bookies operate in a largely unfair manner in this country.
He is trying to take a petition to some Government figure to expose some of the arguably 'iffy' tactics they use. I've certainly experienced many very unreasonable account limitations with nearly all the bookies at one time or another and they all hide behind their T&C's which state they can shut your account at any time without reason. If you watch some of his youtube videos, he does use some fruity language to describe them but essentially he confirms that he and a number of people have been betting for 20 to 30 years and its only in this last 2 years or so that its nearly impossible to get a decent bet on.
So why are Ladbrokes and co complaining that racing is suffering when they don't take the damn bets in the first place! I think they know Racing is like Greyhound Racing and there will always be clever people doing things like I did for the last 6 years that can 'beat' them in these 2 sports. So deep down they probably would rather not have racing at all!
He is trying to take a petition to some Government figure to expose some of the arguably 'iffy' tactics they use. I've certainly experienced many very unreasonable account limitations with nearly all the bookies at one time or another and they all hide behind their T&C's which state they can shut your account at any time without reason. If you watch some of his youtube videos, he does use some fruity language to describe them but essentially he confirms that he and a number of people have been betting for 20 to 30 years and its only in this last 2 years or so that its nearly impossible to get a decent bet on.
So why are Ladbrokes and co complaining that racing is suffering when they don't take the damn bets in the first place! I think they know Racing is like Greyhound Racing and there will always be clever people doing things like I did for the last 6 years that can 'beat' them in these 2 sports. So deep down they probably would rather not have racing at all!
When I look a racing I see quantity and not quality, horses put to stud immediately they win a few races. It's also steeped in complex terminology. If they simplified the product and focused the attention on fewer higher quality meetings I'm sure it would be better.
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mbailey1705
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:25 am
I agree Peter,
When i first started betting on value selections around 6 years ago, the racing was far better quality even early in the week. The field sizes have changed massively. I have data for all 6 years I bet on value selections and the 4/5/6 runner fields were once in a blue moon back then. For the last few years it seems the majority are low grade/small fields even peak summer time.
I would rather they stopped horse racing on monday/tuesday for example, and had better fields/quality for the rest of the week.
When i first started betting on value selections around 6 years ago, the racing was far better quality even early in the week. The field sizes have changed massively. I have data for all 6 years I bet on value selections and the 4/5/6 runner fields were once in a blue moon back then. For the last few years it seems the majority are low grade/small fields even peak summer time.
I would rather they stopped horse racing on monday/tuesday for example, and had better fields/quality for the rest of the week.
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Dublin_Flyer
- Posts: 847
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:39 am
Speaking of terminology Peter, I used to meet a few friends for pints after football on Saturdays. The C4 racing would be on the tv in the pub, and at the parade ring the overview of the horses would be given: Won a maiden, but 6lb out of the handicap here, up in class too but has a 5lb claimer on board.
Anyone not familiar with racing asks HOLD ON now...what the hell are they talking about? What's a claimer, and a maiden, and why is the horse out of the handicap, have the rest got 3 legs or something so he's not handicapped compared to them?
From watching racing on tv, there never seems to be any attempt to engage with possible new enthusiasts, you either know what they're talking about, or go googling.
As far as some sort of introduction to the non racing folk, annually there might be 2 or 3 programs on tv about racing. Something about the Derby possibly, a 30 min segment on the National on the Friday night about Devon Loch, Foinavon, Capt Beecher, Neptune Collonge being grey etc, and a Dispatches type program doing a slaughter job on the industry regarding fixing/doping/fatalities/gambling addiction.
Into this quagmire, add the industry paper, the RP, always having pictures of the beautiful girls done up for ladies day at the big meetings, and the next day the Letters page is full of people complaining about them having a few drinks and a laugh, enjoying the music that was there to get their age group in, and perish the thought, wearing short skirts!!
It's on a slippery steep downhill slope in my view, if no attempt is made to get new fans in, then it'll die off certainly. Any attempts to save it will be by either Government funding (Give it to the poor or cut our tax rate instead!!) or the Middle East rich boys (Oilboys bailing out poshboys!!) Neither will create good headlines.
Regarding quantity vs quality, would you rather come home to Susan Boyle and Whoopi Goldberg from Monday to Friday, or Kelly Brook and Megan Fox on Saturday and Sunday? I rest my case!
Anyone not familiar with racing asks HOLD ON now...what the hell are they talking about? What's a claimer, and a maiden, and why is the horse out of the handicap, have the rest got 3 legs or something so he's not handicapped compared to them?
From watching racing on tv, there never seems to be any attempt to engage with possible new enthusiasts, you either know what they're talking about, or go googling.
As far as some sort of introduction to the non racing folk, annually there might be 2 or 3 programs on tv about racing. Something about the Derby possibly, a 30 min segment on the National on the Friday night about Devon Loch, Foinavon, Capt Beecher, Neptune Collonge being grey etc, and a Dispatches type program doing a slaughter job on the industry regarding fixing/doping/fatalities/gambling addiction.
Into this quagmire, add the industry paper, the RP, always having pictures of the beautiful girls done up for ladies day at the big meetings, and the next day the Letters page is full of people complaining about them having a few drinks and a laugh, enjoying the music that was there to get their age group in, and perish the thought, wearing short skirts!!
It's on a slippery steep downhill slope in my view, if no attempt is made to get new fans in, then it'll die off certainly. Any attempts to save it will be by either Government funding (Give it to the poor or cut our tax rate instead!!) or the Middle East rich boys (Oilboys bailing out poshboys!!) Neither will create good headlines.
Regarding quantity vs quality, would you rather come home to Susan Boyle and Whoopi Goldberg from Monday to Friday, or Kelly Brook and Megan Fox on Saturday and Sunday? I rest my case!
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mbailey1705
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:25 am
Yep, and here we are in peak summer time, flat racing and this Thursday afternoon is full or 5/6 runner affairs. Deep joy! 
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mbailey1705
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:25 am
Just realised, 2 are jumps meetings this afternoon...
Now I feel a right plonker
Now I feel a right plonker
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
my biggest problem with tennis trading is that you have to watch tennis!THENUTS wrote:stick to the tennis instead , many opportunites there.............
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Groovyelms
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 7:42 am
somIe very well points in the above thanks. I was watcing the apalling the ATR yesterday...(nearly always with the sound off) and watched the current betfair ad with 4 oriental table tennis players playing a computer generated octupuss...Dublin_Flyer wrote:Speaking of terminology Peter, I used to meet a few friends for pints after football on Saturdays. The C4 racing would be on the tv in the pub, and at the parade ring the overview of the horses would be given: Won a maiden, but 6lb out of the handicap here, up in class too but has a 5lb claimer on board.
Anyone not familiar with racing asks HOLD ON now...what the hell are they talking about? What's a claimer, and a maiden, and why is the horse out of the handicap, have the rest got 3 legs or something so he's not handicapped compared to them?
From watching racing on tv, there never seems to be any attempt to engage with possible new enthusiasts, you either know what they're talking about, or go googling.
As far as some sort of introduction to the non racing folk, annually there might be 2 or 3 programs on tv about racing. Something about the Derby possibly, a 30 min segment on the National on the Friday night about Devon Loch, Foinavon, Capt Beecher, Neptune Collonge being grey etc, and a Dispatches type program doing a slaughter job on the industry regarding fixing/doping/fatalities/gambling addiction.
Into this quagmire, add the industry paper, the RP, always having pictures of the beautiful girls done up for ladies day at the big meetings, and the next day the Letters page is full of people complaining about them having a few drinks and a laugh, enjoying the music that was there to get their age group in, and perish the thought, wearing short skirts!!
It's on a slippery steep downhill slope in my view, if no attempt is made to get new fans in, then it'll die off certainly. Any attempts to save it will be by either Government funding (Give it to the poor or cut our tax rate instead!!) or the Middle East rich boys (Oilboys bailing out poshboys!!) Neither will create good headlines.
Regarding quantity vs quality, would you rather come home to Susan Boyle and Whoopi Goldberg from Monday to Friday, or Kelly Brook and Megan Fox on Saturday and Sunday? I rest my case!
yes! WTF has that go to do with anything?
