I see this happening with surprising frequency pre-off. I've submitted a lay, let's say at 2.82, and I know I'm at or very near near the front of the queue. The price comes to my level, and hey, I'm gonna get matched, right? Wrong! Hundreds trade at my price but I don't get matched. What happens next?
2.84...2.86....2.88....2.90.
At the front of the queue but not getting matched
Then you need to be closer to the front of the order book.
Timing is everything. Re-evaluate your entry and exit rules.
If your volume is small compared to the volume being traded then you probably need to avoid that form of trading. Especially, pre-off, where thousands are traded and the market whips around.
At so close to the off if your entry and exit isn't near the front of the order book then not only can you forget the return leg of the trade but the starting leg becomes probabilistic too.
There are ways to trade the gees other than that scalping lark. Be a wolf, not a sheep.
Timing is everything. Re-evaluate your entry and exit rules.
If your volume is small compared to the volume being traded then you probably need to avoid that form of trading. Especially, pre-off, where thousands are traded and the market whips around.
At so close to the off if your entry and exit isn't near the front of the order book then not only can you forget the return leg of the trade but the starting leg becomes probabilistic too.
There are ways to trade the gees other than that scalping lark. Be a wolf, not a sheep.
I'm neither a scalper nor a sheep, I'm perfectly happy with my rules, and as I said, I know I'm at the front of the queue, but the issue is that occasionally volume is trading at my price - more than enough volume to get me matched - but I'm not getting matched. This happens about once a day, on average.
Can anyone explain this phenomenon? Actually, it's not entirely a bad thing because it's an excellent signal in itself.
Can anyone explain this phenomenon? Actually, it's not entirely a bad thing because it's an excellent signal in itself.
Betfair deny that this happen, so I suggest you get some video recording software to run in the background whilst you trade, and then post a video on the forum showing it happening.weemac wrote:I know I'm at the front of the queue, but the issue is that occasionally volume is trading at my price - more than enough volume to get me matched - but I'm not getting matched. This happens about once a day, on average.
We can then invite Betfair to explain how something that shouldn't be happening clearly did happen.
Jeff
I've seen this happen too, on many occasions
I think XM has muddied the waters, and people inevitably begin to question the integrity of BF, or ask whether there are market makers who are given queue jumping privileges
I wouldn't put anything past BF these days. They have tinkered with the exchange ecosystem with shit like XM and Price Rush, but you're unlikely to get any admission from them unless they get exposed by a whistleblower
I think XM has muddied the waters, and people inevitably begin to question the integrity of BF, or ask whether there are market makers who are given queue jumping privileges
I wouldn't put anything past BF these days. They have tinkered with the exchange ecosystem with shit like XM and Price Rush, but you're unlikely to get any admission from them unless they get exposed by a whistleblower
Are you sure of your Position In Queue?
There is software out there that will give you an accurate reading of PIQ.
If cross-matching is an issue then instead of backing your runner then take advantage of cross-matching by laying the rest. Assuming market overround is amenable.
Also, routing your trade through multiple exchanges, if the price is right. Though we are getting into the realm of bots here, which is not really for this forum.
However, technology is freezing out a lot of manual traders so many will have to move up to bots individually or pool resources to form syndicates. It's the way of the world. Happened in finance, is happening in sports trading.
A video would be interesting to see.
There is software out there that will give you an accurate reading of PIQ.
If cross-matching is an issue then instead of backing your runner then take advantage of cross-matching by laying the rest. Assuming market overround is amenable.
Also, routing your trade through multiple exchanges, if the price is right. Though we are getting into the realm of bots here, which is not really for this forum.
However, technology is freezing out a lot of manual traders so many will have to move up to bots individually or pool resources to form syndicates. It's the way of the world. Happened in finance, is happening in sports trading.
A video would be interesting to see.
weemac wrote:I'm neither a scalper nor a sheep, I'm perfectly happy with my rules, and as I said, I know I'm at the front of the queue, but the issue is that occasionally volume is trading at my price - more than enough volume to get me matched - but I'm not getting matched. This happens about once a day, on average.
Can anyone explain this phenomenon? Actually, it's not entirely a bad thing because it's an excellent signal in itself.
-
spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
I'd agree with LeTiss most likely XM at lay, plenty of times I'll know I'm front of the queue, simply because I was first order in there filling an empty , the queue will settle at that price point and then move on.
Obviously they'll always be occasions when the market will hit your price spread before moving out again but when matched volume is rising at your price without so much as a nibble it can be annoying. Remember the majority of XM is done without the money matched ever showing on the exchange and also because it's tied to price increments it seems the most likely and obvious culprit.
Obviously they'll always be occasions when the market will hit your price spread before moving out again but when matched volume is rising at your price without so much as a nibble it can be annoying. Remember the majority of XM is done without the money matched ever showing on the exchange and also because it's tied to price increments it seems the most likely and obvious culprit.
Ive had occasions where i have felt that this is happening too,
but as no one has ever be able to record video evidence of it, then i guess it just all in the mind.
I mean alot of us record our trading daily, so shouldn't be that hard to capture.
Traders are a paranoid bunch
.
but as no one has ever be able to record video evidence of it, then i guess it just all in the mind.
I mean alot of us record our trading daily, so shouldn't be that hard to capture.
Traders are a paranoid bunch
.Happened to me once too often at Windsor evening meeting. BF came back with completely ridiculous explanation about reforming markets and non runners which didn`t apply in this case. I told them watched market turn in play and my bet was there but never matched at 1.3 when my horse gets beat at 1.01.
Someone is definitely jumping their turn in the queue. Unless there are offers up there that do not show on the ladders for some reason. Its definitely happening anyway.
Someone is definitely jumping their turn in the queue. Unless there are offers up there that do not show on the ladders for some reason. Its definitely happening anyway.
-
steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
Its easy to see on other vendors software Frank. I could easily catch it tomorrow on Ausy racing and post it up but i don't think it would be right to post it up on here. I am a BA user as well by the way but it doesnt show it on BA ladder.freddy wrote:Ive had occasions where i have felt that this is happening too,
but as no one has ever be able to record video evidence of it, then i guess it just all in the mind.
I mean alot of us record our trading daily, so shouldn't be that hard to capture.
Traders are a paranoid bunch
Its been passed off as a refresh issue on the other software trying to show faster prices, however i don't believe that's the case. End of the day it doesn't matter as they are not monitored by anyone.
If that was the case then wouldnt there be videos elseware exposing it ?.
It is quite a big deal after all.
if other vendors are saying it's the refresh rates then thats probaly what it is. Especially if it doesnt happen over longer time frame.
Im not saying it carnt happen, just after 10 years of trading ive never seen the evidence to back it up.
It is quite a big deal after all.
if other vendors are saying it's the refresh rates then thats probaly what it is. Especially if it doesnt happen over longer time frame.
Im not saying it carnt happen, just after 10 years of trading ive never seen the evidence to back it up.
-
steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
It wasn't other vendors that pointed out the refresh rate
Not sure how that's relevant
You said
"its been passed off as a refresh issue on the other software trying to show faster prices."
and all im saying ,is it's probably the most likely explanation.
This topic is as old as the hills, it's been talked about to death since the early days of Betfair,
but no one ever produces any real evidence, Like most conspiracies
.
You said
"its been passed off as a refresh issue on the other software trying to show faster prices."
and all im saying ,is it's probably the most likely explanation.
This topic is as old as the hills, it's been talked about to death since the early days of Betfair,
but no one ever produces any real evidence, Like most conspiracies
.